Fate/Zero

[stormy panda]

Re: Re:

Speaking of the fact it will continue airing after:O_o Okay. Also,i don't understand why everyone is hating the OP.I don't mind it,but that doesn't change the aniem for me.It is true though that back at the time,Fate Stay Night had better OP themes imo.

Oh, that's something I was thinking about as well, but failed to mention. Everyone is up on us for expressing some mild concerns about the story, but everything's okay when everyone's hating on the OP song without as much as giving an explanation.
Seems that we are not allowed to disagree with the majority, even when we express our opinions in a respectful way.

But yeah, F/SN had better songs. I was feeling nostalgic and listened to disillusion. It's just lovely. *_*

EDIT: To make it completely clear - I am a HUGE F/SN fan, and I've been one for about 2-3 years. I've read the visual novel, and I've watched the TV reproduction and the Unlimited Blade Works movie. I am watching this because I love F/SN and I still would if Yuki wasn't the OST composer. And that's all from me.

 

[KP-X]

I may be one of the few people that actually think the whole idea behind Saber is pretty interesting. Also, it would have been extremely predictable for her to be Joanna D'arc.

I don't hape the OP, but if there's the tiniest possibility that it will be changed, I'm all for it.

And the whole appearance stuff. There are possibilities such as:
- Takashi Takeuchi wanted to have cool designs, and brought the characters as we know today. Nothing out of ordinary, after all, it's not like they have to abide to the real history completely
- It's fiction, so they wanted to make something more different, and sometimes, extravagant (like Gilgamesh, ugh)

Uh, excuse me, but who is up on you guys for expressing concerns about the story? Because I can't point out anyone in this forum, at least.

 

[Lunaria77]

Re:

Uh, excuse me, but who is up on you guys for expressing concerns about the story? Because I can't point out anyone in this forum, at least.

I never said you did that.It was probably a misunderstanding,that's why i responded that to you before.I am not sure what was Nick's position though as i can't really understand from his last post.

edit:
I can't say i don't agree with Panda though that i get the feeling i can't point out things (that in my personal opinion are wrong) in here.As we saw before every time that someone started to do this even in a polite way,it ended up in a fight.
And i don't think i was rude or offended someone with my words,or even said the anime was bad?

 

[stormy panda]

Re:

I may be one of the few people that actually think the whole idea behind Saber is pretty interesting. Also, it would have been extremely predictable for her to be Joanna D'arc.

Maybe it would be predictable, but then it would be up to the writers to make it fresh and unexpected. Believe me, I loved Saber's backstory when I first played the visual novel, even though those discrepancies with Arthur's legend mildly bothered me. But when I read the actual reason that she's female, I lost all respect really. It's one thing to genderbend Arthur just for the sake of art, and another to do it just because of marketing.

I don't hape the OP, but if there's the tiniest possibility that it will be changed, I'm all for it.

Sorry if you thought that was about you. We had a nice discussion about it together, and you had things to say. However, the impression I got from the topic was one of complete Kajiura-cultness, where many blamed the fact that none of the theme songs are by Kalafina and therefore the generic OP and ED suck.
Well, I like the OP and I am still hoping they do change the songs in the mid-season point, just for the sake of variety. ;)

And the whole appearance stuff. There are possibilities such as:
- Takashi Takeuchi wanted to have cool designs, and brought the characters as we know today. Nothing out of ordinary, after all, it's not like they have to abide to the real history completely
- It's fiction, so they wanted to make something more different, and sometimes, extravagant (like Gilgamesh, ugh)

I am definitely not arguing that, because you are right. My opinion still stands though. :)

Uh, excuse me, but who is up on you guys for expressing concerns about the story? Because I can't point out anyone in this forum, at least.

Dunno, that's what I felt. I know I might be overreacting, but many people seemed to miss the point of me being a Fate fan and actually knowing stuff about the franchise. Some of the replies I got really made me question how much of a fan I am.

 

[KP-X]

^Nah, I didn't think you (Lunaria) were pointing your finger at me, it's just that I don't think Nick was doing that as well. And since there are not many people discussing here as well, it's hard to see who could be doing this XD

Ah, something I didn't mention before:

Spoiler

Like I said before, they are going to talk about issues like Guinevere, for example. As for how everyone is going to react, that's personal. I...have mixed feelings, but I find it interesting. In a sense, I find the whole "rewriting of history for the sake of hiding some fact" pretty interesting, so I can't say I dislike Saber being Arthur. Let's just say Nasu found a rather unconventional way to make his character a woman and still be a grand heroic spirit. But of course, it is not everyone that will and most importantly have to agree with that.

As for Kotomine having a spouse. Yeah, that strikes as odd and seems more like lack of proper search on Catholic's dogmas. I don't know who to blame though, Urobuchi or Nasu. I'm inclinated to Nasu LOL

And the lack of female protagonists...given nowadays' situation, I'm actually glad lol

Ah, stormypanda, about the reason why Nasu made that change. Well, it is in a sense stupid, but it's the market he choose to make his living out of. This is just a thought of mine, but I think that KnK was an experiment, and since it didn't make that much of a success at the time it was released, they began to aim their products for a public that would give them more response, and that's exactly what happened XD

 

[Lunaria77]

Oh okies thank god,i felt something evil was growing up in this thread too

 

[stormy panda]

Re:

Ah, something I didn't mention before:

Spoiler

Like I said before, they are going to talk about issues like Guinevere, for example. As for how everyone is going to react, that's personal. I...have mixed feelings, but I find it interesting. In a sense, I find the whole "rewriting of history for the sake of hiding some fact" pretty interesting, so I can't say I dislike Saber being Arthur. Let's just say Nasu found a rather unconventional way to make his character a woman and still be a grand heroic spirit. But of course, it is not everyone that will and most importantly have to agree with that.

As for Kotomine having a spouse. Yeah, that strikes as odd and seems more like lack of proper search on Catholic's dogmas. I don't know who to blame though, Urobuchi or Nasu. I'm inclinated to Nasu LOL

Spoiler

Okay, I will look forward to that part. Now you've sparked my curiosity. :D

Hmm, I don't remember something in the F/SN VN about Kotomine having a wife. Then again I don't remember if the fact that his own father was a priest was ever mentioned.
I am more than ready to blame that on Urobuchi, but I don't know how big TYPE-MOON's involvement was in F/Z (other than Takeuchi's illustrations).

And the lack of female protagonists...given nowadays' situation, I'm actually glad lol

You're talking about anime in general? In that case I'll probably agree. But I do think we need more people who can write women well. And that's a problem I see in most other mainstream media as well, like movies, books and so on. :<

Ah, stormypanda, about the reason why Nasu made that change. Well, it is in a sense stupid, but it's the market he choose to make his living out of. This is just a thought of mine, but I think that KnK was an experiment, and since it didn't make that much of a success at the time it was released, they began to aim their products for a public that would give them more response, and that's exactly what happened XD

That's true in a sense. :< Hmm, I didn't know KnK didn't do well. I know it's an old story, and I was not really sure how the novels did, but I thought the movies were pretty popular around the otaku crowd. Of course that was after F/SN, which was a huge hit. (And really, it was a breakthrough for visual novels. With the limited functionality of a visual novel engine, they managed to animate the fights and make reading walls of text exciting. It was a wonderful experience for me, because, despite all my issues, that's the kind of story I want to create some day.)

Still, I would really have loved to read the alternate F/SN story. Maybe I'll write it myself after all. xD

Oh okies thank god,i felt something evil was growing up in this thread too

+1

 

[KP-X]

^I definitely agree with you about more people that know how to create a female character. Maybe it is because I am a woman myself, but I really don't like how they are depicting female characters nowadays (not that I necessarily like it back then, but oh well XD).

And KnK was first released at Comiket as a doujin, and the the last chapters were released in a website they created, in an attempt to get good results from the advent of the internet at that time in Japan. But the story didn't really make much success, and they decide to create Tsukihime, with many ideas from their first work, but creating it with a public in mind (hence, eroge VN lol). They actually had a successful project and ended up releasing some chapters from KnK in a Tsukihime Fan-Disc, and people actually got curious. So they ended up releasing it as a novel by Kodansha years later. So, yes, KnK is rather acknowledged nowadays but it was after Tsukihime.

And anyways, it's this Saturday already! I sure feel like time went by fast XD

 

[Yuki88]

my opinion after watching the 1st episode:
- a certain BGM has possibility to be repetitive. the one with Tokyo Konsei and Yuri Kasahara made me shivering though.
- animation = movie level.
- story okay. can't judge for now.
- oath sign. will forever skip it. LiSA's voice is much too annoying there.

 

[Nick Hunter]

Everyone is up on us for expressing some mild concerns about the story

Huh? I personally wasn't. Sorry if it seemed like this. In my view, this way of presentation a historical character is an twist that evokes curiosity and is fated to give birth to memes, but that doesn't make it any less weird. Of course, this twist is also cheapened when you learn it was simply a way to fit the characters for the target audience. I agree that the other way around - with a female protagonist and a male servant - would have been just as interesting to watch, I don't really see any problems with such a line-up (unless they feared to be associated with Zero no Tsukaima? ).

The reason I remembered Pope Joan is because I peeked into Saber's biography and found some similarities (namely

Spoiler

holding a highest post while keeping the disguise as a man... although Arturia seems far more successful in that venture

), and I actually wondered if Kinoko Nasu could have heard the Pope Joan tale, too, and taken some inspiration. But transplanting legends from one [semi-]historical figure to another is a tough project. Like you and Lunaria mentioned, King Arthur legend don't give ANY base for turning it into Arturia legend. It is a fresh take indeed, causing many interested reactions from "Huh?" to "Wow, seriously?" to "LOLWUT?", but I couldn't argue that it is very far-fetched.

I feel comparatively less so about Rider, though. While it's true that most ancient portraits depict Alexander with a MUCH younger face, some artists choose to add some hair to his face:

The rest, I guess, was the Type-MOON designer's responsibility. Like I said, I'm alright with it. But if you choose the term "a tiny bit bothered by the story", then I guess it's applicable to everyone including even Type-Moon's devoted fans. Be it lasting or limited to the first encounter and the mildly WTF face expression.
And Saber's alternate depiction as

Spoiler

Nero...

LOL, how did they write THAT out?

but I thought the movies were pretty popular around the otaku crowd. Of course that was after F/SN, which was a huge hit.

Plus it WAS animated by a notable quality studio and scored by a notable quality composer.

LiSA's voice is much too annoying there.

Lol, I'll end up mildly disagreeing here as well, since for me, LiSA's way of singing is the only thing that made this song feel desperate and powerful. I'm afraid that otherwise it might have sounded even MORE generic, like some Kampfer OP. But that's my IMHO, to be sure.

 

[stormy panda]

Re:

^I definitely agree with you about more people that know how to create a female character. Maybe it is because I am a woman myself, but I really don't like how they are depicting female characters nowadays (not that I necessarily like it back then, but oh well XD).

EXACTLY. I could talk for HOURS about this really. >_<

And KnK was first released at Comiket as a doujin, and the the last chapters were released in a website they created, in an attempt to get good results from the advent of the internet at that time in Japan. But the story didn't really make much success, and they decide to create Tsukihime, with many ideas from their first work, but creating it with a public in mind (hence, eroge VN lol). They actually had a successful project and ended up releasing some chapters from KnK in a Tsukihime Fan-Disc, and people actually got curious. So they ended up releasing it as a novel by Kodansha years later. So, yes, KnK is rather acknowledged nowadays but it was after Tsukihime.

Nice, thanks for the info. It makes sense that they'd go with that route in F/SN. And maybe Nasu started writing it before the success of Tsukihime and that's why he changed things.

And anyways, it's this Saturday already! I sure feel like time went by fast XD

And I thought time wouldn't pass fast enough! But the first episode spoiled me. I want the second one to be 48 minutes long as well. :<

Huh? I personally wasn't. Sorry if it seemed like this. In my view, this way of presentation a historical character is an twist that evokes curiosity and is fated to give birth to memes, but that doesn't make it any less weird. Of course, this twist is also cheapened when you learn it was simply a way to fit the characters for the target audience. I agree that the other way around - with a female protagonist and a male servant - would have been just as interesting to watch, I don't really see any problems with such a line-up (unless they feared to be associated with Zero no Tsukaima? ).

Oh no, no Zero no Tsukaima! I mean, I enjoyed the first 2 series, but Louise was too much.
Which is maybe why that alternate story was better left untold. Now that I think about it, unless the main heroine was envisioned as a man in a girl's body, we'd have to do with a tsundere of epic proportions. I reckon she'd be a lot like Rin. xD

The reason I remembered Pope Joan is because I peeked into Saber's biography and found some similarities (namely

Spoiler

holding a highest post while keeping the disguise as a man... although Arturia seems far more successful in that venture

), and I actually wondered if Kinoko Nasu could have heard the Pope Joan tale, too, and taken some inspiration. But transplanting legends from one [semi-]historical figure to another is a tough project. Like you and Lunaria mentioned, King Arthur legend don't give ANY base for turning it into Arturia legend. It is a fresh take indeed, causing many interested reactions from "Huh?" to "Wow, seriously?" to "LOLWUT?", but I couldn't argue that it is very far-fetched.

I see, that makes sense. Well, Pope Joan is pretty well known here too, so I guess it's a possibility that he was inspired by her legend as well. And seeing how many heroes and villains from how many cultures he has incorporated in F/SN, he definitely had to do some research, even just to find the names. xD

I feel comparatively less so about Rider, though. While it's true that most ancient portraits depict Alexander with a MUCH younger face, some artists choose to add some hair to his face:

The rest, I guess, was the Type-MOON designer's responsibility. Like I said, I'm alright with it. But if you choose the term "a tiny bit bothered by the story", then I guess it's applicable to everyone including even Type-Moon's devoted fans. Be it lasting or limited to the first encounter and the mildly WTF face expression.

Okay, Rider's appearance doesn't really have anything to do with the story, I admit it, but I didn't think that remark would take a life of its own. xD My image of Alexander is mostly this one, where his and Rider's hair are pretty much the same I think. I can definitely see his character design being inspired by this depiction with some liberties as you guys have mentioned.

And Saber's alternate depiction as

Spoiler

Nero...

LOL, how did they write THAT out?

Beats me really. I could accept Arthur, but this confused the hell out of me. xD I haven't played that game, but I feel that the backstories of the Servants would maybe be much less significant in there than in the canon itself.

 

[ninetales]

Re:

And they can't switch the actual songs to worse ones...please, they simply can't.

Perhaps the rumored Kalafina OP will show up after the hiatus...

With a Yuuka ED to match?

 

[stormy panda]

Re: Re:

With a Yuuka ED to match?

If Yuuka switches from Victor to Sony in the meantime. xD

 

[murrue02]

Saber's background story is quite interesting to me, one of the reasons why she became one of my favorite characters.I just love stories about cool,cold,strong beliefs,female knights.Saber defines it all for me.Of course the whole idea of ancient heroes are really good.I hope Zero would cover Saber's past,on how she became the king blah blah blah.

I'm certainly gonna miss Fate/Zero which would air on spring.

 

[Yuki88]

Re:

[quote="Nick Hunter"

LiSA's voice is much too annoying there.

Lol, I'll end up mildly disagreeing here as well, since for me, LiSA's way of singing is the only thing that made this song feel desperate and powerful. I'm afraid that otherwise it might have sounded even MORE generic, like some Kampfer OP. But that's my IMHO, to be sure.[/quote]

I'd prefer Marina than LiSA if so, better vocal capability as well.

 

[Nick Hunter]

If Yuuka switches from Victor to Sony in the meantime. xD

Why switch? Wakana, Keiko, Yuriko and Eri seem to have no problem working with Yuki under both labels.
Maybe you just need to pay some courtesy cash to the artist's primary label if you want to have his contribution to a record released by yours? But if it's the artist Yuki wants and insists is needed for the perfect result, a reasonable producer will bear such expenses.

 

[stormy panda]

Re: Re:

I'd prefer Marina than LiSA if so, better vocal capability as well.

Yup, same here. I can kinda ignore LiSA's voice and enjoy the song, but Marina (and many others actually) would nail it. But yeah, let's wait for an instrumental version. :D

 

[george1234]

Episode 2 is out!! http://ch.nicovideo.jp/channel/fate-zero

[EDIT] Oh that was fast! (compared to last week )

I recognised 2 new musics
> 1 when the

Spoiler

demon-like servent killed the kid ( )

> 1 when the

Spoiler

assassin tried to enter the tohsaka house.

and some other question,

Spoiler

the new guy seems to first said the spell and afterward the seal appeared on his hand and the servant appeared, as if he didnt do cerenomy for it (unless ceremony was the killing of people)

[EDIT2] there were more musics but I was paying too much attention in the dialogues and didnt noticed

 

[Kazado]

I have to listen to it again with headphones but...

• Music for this new episode was really good.
• I loved the first BGM, it takes me 10 years back <3
• Yuki is not using vocals, wtf?
• The ED is simply wonderful.

 

[KP-X]

^I think the fact that she Yuki is not using vocals, aside from the first episode, is because most of the scenes for the time being are not action ones. To just spam vocal songs in conversations may not be such a good thing to do (like Sis Puella Magica was all the time).
I still haven't watched the whole episode but the OST sure seems good. Especially the first one.