S
stormy panda
Guest
Re:
The following post is full with spoilers from the Fate metaverse. You have been warned.
@Lunaria77:
End of spoilers. You can proceed freely. :P
But let's just say that many of the things revealed casually in the first episode of F/Z were huge revelations/plot twists in F/SN and some things that are taken for granted in F/SN have not happened in F/Z yet.
Really though, if you watch F/Z first, F/SN will not have any big impact on you because you will know most twists beforehand. (Except maybe what happens in the UBW route.) And the opposite is true as well. If you've watched/read F/SN, you already know who's gonna die in F/Z. All that remains to know is the "how" and "when".
EDIT: Okay, this was the final edit. I'm done with this monster of a post. xD
The following post is full with spoilers from the Fate metaverse. You have been warned.
@Lunaria77:
I still can't shallow the fact Saber is King Arthrur(a man) and the rest of historic,etc casualties.
I guess I can't argue with your point about the Saber = Arthur thing. I've never really studied Arthur's history, but Arthur being a woman contradicts everything I know. If Arthur is a woman, what about Guinevere and Morgana and all that other women, and what about his children? The Fate/Extra game has a male Arthur as a Saber and that's fine, but then it also has the Roman emperor Nero as the Saber we know and love. I don't know which is worse really. My obvious choice for Saber would have been Joanne of Arc actually.
Another thing that bugs me is that Rider = Alexander the Great. He definitely does not look how I imagined according to artwork from that era. See the image in his Wikipedia article for example. (Not linking because links are not hidden by the spoiler thing. Argh.) I mean, they kinda got the hair and the beard right in the character design, but Alexander died at 33, which means he would have been much younger than F/Z's Rider and less buff.
I'm not really sure about the other heroic spirits, because I don't know much about their backstory. Gilgamesh/Archer is another one that bothers me though, because his armor is too modern for the time he was supposed to have lived. And his hair color doesn't really make sense to me.
Also,the italian priest,couldn't have had a wife,since he wouldn't be a priest then.
I didn't really know that, so it really surprised me. Another case of research failure I guess... Christian Orthodox priests can marry, but neither Kotomine nor his father looked Orthodox to me, so I supposed they were Catholics. (Orthodox priests can and do marry, unless they want to be bishops.)
And I suppose that a person who was married to someone who passed away is not eligible to become a priest, right?
I totally disliked seeing them torturing Sakura again in the worst manner they could find,even though in a different way. I hated Sakura's mother,Aoi
She gave up her little daughter to those crazy bastards without giving a fight.And she continues her life normally,just like that.What the ..?Where did you see mothers like that? I just hate weak characters like that.
I didn't really pay attention to Aoi's reaction at first because I wasn't focused on her, but yeah you have a point. We don't really know at this point, but how she responded to Kariya leaves the impression that she never put up a fight for her daughter's sake. Dunno, if I was her, I'd dump Tokiomi, take my daughters and hide somewhere. Maybe they would eventually find them, but still. And I believe that the Tohsakas giving up their child to the Matous... Gah, that was totally needless and I've had an issue with that since F/SN. In my opinion, the Matous could have just kidnapped Sakura and brainwashed her to forget her family. Now that would make for an interesting and tragic storyline.
Another way things could have turned out (which was inspired by something you said) is this: Aoi could have committed suicide. This would be totally in accordance with F/SN, where she's obviously dead, and, supposing Kariya was in love with her, he would have a real, completely believable motive to participate in the Holy Grail war, revenge against his father who only causes pain and suffering. It would have been more interesting, because it wouldn't be like this, where he was doomed to die from the moment he agreed to be trained.
And not to mention Kariya almost-or totally- gave his life to save (if there is anything left to save) Sakura,like he cared about her more than her mother.And he was like ''let's take Aoi you and Rin and go somewhere to have fun.'' Hello?You are a great person but i think she already said she knew what she would be through by marrying that man.She totally looked like she wanted to stay in this family so far.
That's true as well. I reckon Kariya is in love with Aoi and maybe that's what motivates him. But it doesn't make sense. It's obvious from the start that he'll lose. Poor guy, somehow I sympathized with him, despite his "too nice to live" mentality. And that scene with Sakura touched me. But well, from the way Sakura said good-bye, it's obvious that even she knows he doesn't have a chance.
Also,will there be a lack of strong female characters-masters as in Fate/Stay night?
I think so. So far the only strong female characters are Rin, Saber and Irisviel. I haven't read the F/Z novels, but I reckon that Irisviel will be something like Kiritsugu's confidant and helper, so she still will be eclipsed by a great man. And Saber... Kiritsugu thinks of her as a tool and he's made that evident even from the first episode. And Rin is too young to play any important role yet, but I loved just how she was able to see through Kotomine even then. :)
Anyway, from what I've seen from the promo images, we already know 6 of the 7 masters and they're all men. And the other one that hasn't appeared yet is a man as well, as we can see from the opening. For a tool beyond and above humans, the Holy Grail (even that fake one that appears in Fuyuki city) sure holds patriarchical views. And the only woman servant (Saber) is known in legends to be a man, so yeah.
Actually, thinking now about F/SN and its 3 female masters, two of them had a route (which means that they were there for the H-stuff >_<) and the third one was supposed to have her own route, but was cut out at the last moment. That really doesn't bode well for our female characters overall.
Sure,i might be biased because i didn't think Fate/Stay night was a masterpiece either.
But overall the show doesn't look bad so far.There are just some flaws for my personal taste.And overall the idea is good.I will keep watching it because i am kinda sure that most other airing shows won't be any better ,as we know of lately
No, it's okay. I've read the visual novel and loved the concept, but I still see why you make these points and I mostly agree with your take on things.
I guess I can't argue with your point about the Saber = Arthur thing. I've never really studied Arthur's history, but Arthur being a woman contradicts everything I know. If Arthur is a woman, what about Guinevere and Morgana and all that other women, and what about his children? The Fate/Extra game has a male Arthur as a Saber and that's fine, but then it also has the Roman emperor Nero as the Saber we know and love. I don't know which is worse really. My obvious choice for Saber would have been Joanne of Arc actually.
Another thing that bugs me is that Rider = Alexander the Great. He definitely does not look how I imagined according to artwork from that era. See the image in his Wikipedia article for example. (Not linking because links are not hidden by the spoiler thing. Argh.) I mean, they kinda got the hair and the beard right in the character design, but Alexander died at 33, which means he would have been much younger than F/Z's Rider and less buff.
I'm not really sure about the other heroic spirits, because I don't know much about their backstory. Gilgamesh/Archer is another one that bothers me though, because his armor is too modern for the time he was supposed to have lived. And his hair color doesn't really make sense to me.
Also,the italian priest,couldn't have had a wife,since he wouldn't be a priest then.
I didn't really know that, so it really surprised me. Another case of research failure I guess... Christian Orthodox priests can marry, but neither Kotomine nor his father looked Orthodox to me, so I supposed they were Catholics. (Orthodox priests can and do marry, unless they want to be bishops.)
And I suppose that a person who was married to someone who passed away is not eligible to become a priest, right?
I totally disliked seeing them torturing Sakura again in the worst manner they could find,even though in a different way. I hated Sakura's mother,Aoi
She gave up her little daughter to those crazy bastards without giving a fight.And she continues her life normally,just like that.What the ..?Where did you see mothers like that? I just hate weak characters like that.I didn't really pay attention to Aoi's reaction at first because I wasn't focused on her, but yeah you have a point. We don't really know at this point, but how she responded to Kariya leaves the impression that she never put up a fight for her daughter's sake. Dunno, if I was her, I'd dump Tokiomi, take my daughters and hide somewhere. Maybe they would eventually find them, but still. And I believe that the Tohsakas giving up their child to the Matous... Gah, that was totally needless and I've had an issue with that since F/SN. In my opinion, the Matous could have just kidnapped Sakura and brainwashed her to forget her family. Now that would make for an interesting and tragic storyline.
Another way things could have turned out (which was inspired by something you said) is this: Aoi could have committed suicide. This would be totally in accordance with F/SN, where she's obviously dead, and, supposing Kariya was in love with her, he would have a real, completely believable motive to participate in the Holy Grail war, revenge against his father who only causes pain and suffering. It would have been more interesting, because it wouldn't be like this, where he was doomed to die from the moment he agreed to be trained.
And not to mention Kariya almost-or totally- gave his life to save (if there is anything left to save) Sakura,like he cared about her more than her mother.And he was like ''let's take Aoi you and Rin and go somewhere to have fun.'' Hello?You are a great person but i think she already said she knew what she would be through by marrying that man.She totally looked like she wanted to stay in this family so far.
That's true as well. I reckon Kariya is in love with Aoi and maybe that's what motivates him. But it doesn't make sense. It's obvious from the start that he'll lose. Poor guy, somehow I sympathized with him, despite his "too nice to live" mentality. And that scene with Sakura touched me. But well, from the way Sakura said good-bye, it's obvious that even she knows he doesn't have a chance.
Also,will there be a lack of strong female characters-masters as in Fate/Stay night?
I think so. So far the only strong female characters are Rin, Saber and Irisviel. I haven't read the F/Z novels, but I reckon that Irisviel will be something like Kiritsugu's confidant and helper, so she still will be eclipsed by a great man. And Saber... Kiritsugu thinks of her as a tool and he's made that evident even from the first episode. And Rin is too young to play any important role yet, but I loved just how she was able to see through Kotomine even then. :)
Anyway, from what I've seen from the promo images, we already know 6 of the 7 masters and they're all men. And the other one that hasn't appeared yet is a man as well, as we can see from the opening. For a tool beyond and above humans, the Holy Grail (even that fake one that appears in Fuyuki city) sure holds patriarchical views. And the only woman servant (Saber) is known in legends to be a man, so yeah.
Actually, thinking now about F/SN and its 3 female masters, two of them had a route (which means that they were there for the H-stuff >_<) and the third one was supposed to have her own route, but was cut out at the last moment. That really doesn't bode well for our female characters overall.
Sure,i might be biased because i didn't think Fate/Stay night was a masterpiece either.
But overall the show doesn't look bad so far.There are just some flaws for my personal taste.And overall the idea is good.I will keep watching it because i am kinda sure that most other airing shows won't be any better ,as we know of lately
No, it's okay. I've read the visual novel and loved the concept, but I still see why you make these points and I mostly agree with your take on things.
End of spoilers. You can proceed freely. :P
I could say lots, but they're spoilers. If you're feeling like you want spoilers, you might want to read my huge reply to Luna above. I think it will give you a good idea about how things will turn out.Nick Hunter said:^ point taken.
Personally, I was having slight disturbing thoughts of whether something of Waver's character may have lingered on Urobuchi's mind when he was working on Sayaka...
I find it hard to be expecting a good outcome for this guy.
Of course, seeing as it's a prequel, this time we'll likely see a good deal of characters survivng, so one can't say for sure (unless this one is an informed Fate fan).
But let's just say that many of the things revealed casually in the first episode of F/Z were huge revelations/plot twists in F/SN and some things that are taken for granted in F/SN have not happened in F/Z yet.
Really though, if you watch F/Z first, F/SN will not have any big impact on you because you will know most twists beforehand. (Except maybe what happens in the UBW route.) And the opposite is true as well. If you've watched/read F/SN, you already know who's gonna die in F/Z. All that remains to know is the "how" and "when".
EDIT: Okay, this was the final edit. I'm done with this monster of a post. xD
. (As I understand, he married illegally, but I think many one who heard their story misunderstood that Catholic Italian priest in those days can have a wife...)
I wonder why 
