G
garnetjester
Guest
I think Emily is a dramatic mezzosoprano as well, her low notes are very deep. And I also agree that Hikaru isn't a contralto but a mezzosoprano.
K
KP-X
Guest
Re:
I'm not going to discuss Hanae's vocal range since I don't know much about it but I don't think your example was the best one. I think The Battle is to the Strong called for Hanae's smooth voice because it is not such an energic track as one would think it would be.
Kagaribi no Hanabira said:
I'm not going to discuss Hanae's vocal range since I don't know much about it but I don't think your example was the best one. I think The Battle is to the Strong called for Hanae's smooth voice because it is not such an energic track as one would think it would be.
Lorde-Kowz
I have reached Yuki nirvana
Hanae is a soprano.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_Planeta
I think she's the one with the short hair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tylNzBlPcQ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensemble_Planeta
I think she's the one with the short hair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tylNzBlPcQ
R
ritardando
Guest
Re:
As for the rest, I kinda agree with ninetales, though.
I agree with Kagaribi. I think that Hikaru is still on mezzosoprano type, because her voice isn't dark, and her voice doesn't have "power" as much as Keiko has in lower notes. And her voice isn't heavy at all. Maybe she is in Dramatic mezzosoprano for me. Or maybe if she is in contralto, her voice is in Lyric contralto.Kagaribi no Hanabira said:
As for the rest, I kinda agree with ninetales, though.
N
ninetales
Guest
^ You're right that her voice isn't heavy, but I do think it's at least slightly dark...her performances in Magia and D.U., for example, wouldn't have had the same impact (for me) otherwise. 
S
sadakoyamamura
Guest
I think Hikaru's voice isn't dark, and I recalled they once described her voice as clear and somehow bring cheerful feelings into the songs, complementing Wakana's sorrowful and Keiko's deep vocals (unless my memory betrayed me, that's it). Songs like Magia and D.U are dark themselves, and Hikaru's voice just gives out a feeling of tension that fits them pretty well.
Besides it's not that difficult for a dramatic mezzosoprano vocalists to hit low notes similar to Keiko (Especially when you put on Hikaru's super angsty expressions
). Hikaru can hit really low notes in some chorus lines, but i doubt she can do it as effortlessly as Keiko throughout a whole song. So I'm stick with her being a dramatic mezzosoprano.
Besides it's not that difficult for a dramatic mezzosoprano vocalists to hit low notes similar to Keiko (Especially when you put on Hikaru's super angsty expressions
). Hikaru can hit really low notes in some chorus lines, but i doubt she can do it as effortlessly as Keiko throughout a whole song. So I'm stick with her being a dramatic mezzosoprano.
R
ritardando
Guest
^ +1 to sadakoyamamura.
After all, for me Magia and Destination Unknown don't have notes as low as Keiko reach in Tetotetometome. And what Sadakoyamamura was right, in an interview, they once described Hikaru's voice as light and give some bright feeling for the song. And he/she really have a point there, how Magia and Destination Unknown is already dark by their music and Hikaru's voice just give the extra tension for the song. After all, I never consider Hikaru's voice in D.U as dark. Her voice there is sexy. Especially when the "yume wo katarisugite..." stanza before the final chorus. Magia has fairly higher notes, although Hikaru sings it in deep voice.
After all, for me Magia and Destination Unknown don't have notes as low as Keiko reach in Tetotetometome. And what Sadakoyamamura was right, in an interview, they once described Hikaru's voice as light and give some bright feeling for the song. And he/she really have a point there, how Magia and Destination Unknown is already dark by their music and Hikaru's voice just give the extra tension for the song. After all, I never consider Hikaru's voice in D.U as dark. Her voice there is sexy. Especially when the "yume wo katarisugite..." stanza before the final chorus. Magia has fairly higher notes, although Hikaru sings it in deep voice.
K
Kagaribi no Hanabira
Guest
Re: Re:
Umm..I think you got the point...so it may be quite difficult to identify the sub-type of Soprano only from the songs that they sang for Yuki because some of the keys to classify are in Opera pieces and may not in the songs that they sang for Yuki. For example, Hanae usually gives a kind of calm&smooth&nondramatic for Yuki's song, but she may be able to sing dramatically or those fast-paced arias and actually make her in the dramatic coloratura type, but we never know that... So..I think that the same may be go to Yuriko&Eri.KP-X said:
C
Cerise
Guest
Hmm...so maybe you would say Wakana is soprano-ranged, since she can reach sort of into Yuriko territory (like MATERIALISE) but with the vocal timbre/quality/character (have no idea what the correct term here is lol sorry) of a mezzo-soprano? (like...a lyric mezzo-soprano? The description really fitted her, I think..."smooth and sensitive and with a lachrymose quality" - when I read that, I instantly thought "yep, that's Wakana." Especially the 'lachrymose quality' bit XD)
Did she actually have professional training in opera style (like how she sings in MATERIALISE and Liminality)? I think I've read before somewhere but I don't remember if she had some lessons or is an amateur...
I think Hikaru does fit the dramatic mezzo-soprano description, after all, even if she can sing deep, it doesn't mean she can sing deep notes as comfortably as Keiko can. And Keiko can probably reach low notes that are out of Hikaru's range (I notice she sometimes go suuuuper deep when doing chorus but you don't notice it most of the time because she's somewhere in the background). But yeah, I do think of Hikaru's voice as being 'broad and powerful'.
Kaori I think is maybe fits a coloratura mezzo-sop, mainly because she seems to fit the decription quite well:
Kaori does seem to me to have the most agile voice of out her, Hikaru and Wakana...and she can reach quite high notes but obviously isn't as comfortable as Wakana is with those notes. She can go low (e.g. when she does harmony for Keiko in Houseki and Synchroninity) but seems to sound the most comfortable mid-range, e.g. in Yume no Tsubasa, Dream scape, Michiyuki etc.
And yeah, sorry about using opera-style vocal classifications that probably don't apply all that well but for some reason there don't seem to be clear groupings for non-classical style singers and i'm a bit obsessed with this sort of thing...I find it really fascinating talking about it even though I don't really know much about music ^^'
Did she actually have professional training in opera style (like how she sings in MATERIALISE and Liminality)? I think I've read before somewhere but I don't remember if she had some lessons or is an amateur...
I think Hikaru does fit the dramatic mezzo-soprano description, after all, even if she can sing deep, it doesn't mean she can sing deep notes as comfortably as Keiko can. And Keiko can probably reach low notes that are out of Hikaru's range (I notice she sometimes go suuuuper deep when doing chorus but you don't notice it most of the time because she's somewhere in the background). But yeah, I do think of Hikaru's voice as being 'broad and powerful'.
Kaori I think is maybe fits a coloratura mezzo-sop, mainly because she seems to fit the decription quite well:
Kaori does seem to me to have the most agile voice of out her, Hikaru and Wakana...and she can reach quite high notes but obviously isn't as comfortable as Wakana is with those notes. She can go low (e.g. when she does harmony for Keiko in Houseki and Synchroninity) but seems to sound the most comfortable mid-range, e.g. in Yume no Tsubasa, Dream scape, Michiyuki etc.
And yeah, sorry about using opera-style vocal classifications that probably don't apply all that well but for some reason there don't seem to be clear groupings for non-classical style singers and i'm a bit obsessed with this sort of thing...I find it really fascinating talking about it even though I don't really know much about music ^^'
R
ritardando
Guest
^
I 100% agree with you :). I think even though Hikaru uses her deep voice, she still can't reach the low notes that Keiko could reach, like in I reach for the sun, Tetotetometome (the koi wa doko ni aru, koi wa ikitsumaru, koi wa koko ni aru have an extremely low notes in the end). And Hikaru's deep voice was just deep, and don't have the certain power that Keiko has in her voice.
And I think that Kaori is a coloratura mezzo too, if you look at my earlier posts for the same reason. She could sing higher and she could reach lower notes, but she obviously most comfortable with her middle notes.
I 100% agree with you :). I think even though Hikaru uses her deep voice, she still can't reach the low notes that Keiko could reach, like in I reach for the sun, Tetotetometome (the koi wa doko ni aru, koi wa ikitsumaru, koi wa koko ni aru have an extremely low notes in the end). And Hikaru's deep voice was just deep, and don't have the certain power that Keiko has in her voice.
And I think that Kaori is a coloratura mezzo too, if you look at my earlier posts for the same reason. She could sing higher and she could reach lower notes, but she obviously most comfortable with her middle notes.
K
KP-X
Guest
Re: Re:
I think my point was more that I don't consider The Battle is to the Strong an energetic song, rather than Hanae's vocal range per se. Yeah, off-topic, but still ;X
Kagaribi no Hanabira said:
I think my point was more that I don't consider The Battle is to the Strong an energetic song, rather than Hanae's vocal range per se. Yeah, off-topic, but still ;X
Y
Yuki88
Guest
Re:
all of them had vocal training after joining Space Craft Entertainment (their agency). Wakana was also trained in gospel iirc? She doesn't have training in opera, though. Only Yuriko, out of FJ/Kalafina girls, who had professional training in opera as she graduated from music college.
Cerise said:
all of them had vocal training after joining Space Craft Entertainment (their agency). Wakana was also trained in gospel iirc? She doesn't have training in opera, though. Only Yuriko, out of FJ/Kalafina girls, who had professional training in opera as she graduated from music college.
C
Cerise
Guest
Gospel? Gospel??? Wowww...that's...unexpected...I'd like to hear her singing it one day...
And I'm surprised she doesn't have any training in opera, she did such a good job in Liminality and MATERIALISE, especially for an amateur~~
And I'm surprised she doesn't have any training in opera, she did such a good job in Liminality and MATERIALISE, especially for an amateur~~
R
ritardando
Guest
^
Sorry, but I really didn't enjoy Liminality at all. It's... ear-aching for me :( I skipped Liminality and winter a lot from FJ-live CD...
Sorry for off topic, I still don't sure myself, in which part did Wakana sing and in which part Yuriko sing in MATERIALISE live? For me, Yuriko sing the first and last minute from the song, and Wakana took the middle part. Or I'm getting confused here?
Sorry, but I really didn't enjoy Liminality at all. It's... ear-aching for me :( I skipped Liminality and winter a lot from FJ-live CD...
Sorry for off topic, I still don't sure myself, in which part did Wakana sing and in which part Yuriko sing in MATERIALISE live? For me, Yuriko sing the first and last minute from the song, and Wakana took the middle part. Or I'm getting confused here?
Lorde-Kowz
I have reached Yuki nirvana
Yesh~
K
Kagaribi no Hanabira
Guest
Re: Re:
. Even Frenetic is still a smooth&calm style if we consider only her voice.
As for Wakana case, I think I change my mind after listening some tracks from RHH today...^ ^ll. now I think she's indeed in Soprano..- -"..., but may be just a soulbrette. And for your question, mainly it's because when we talk about coloratura soprano/dramatic soprano/etc, it's the category for operatic singing. While when we say that this singer is soprano, messo-soprano, etc., it isn't about the operatic thing.
Some of messo-soprano operatic singing can be so high that ordinary messo-soprano pop singers can't deal with. (Carmen, for example, is messo-soprano role, but can you imagin Yuuka or Hikaru sing as Carmen perfectly..? It may be difficult even for Kaori or Wakana.) So I think it isn't weird if soprano (in non-classical sense) singer fall in the messo-soprano category for opera.
Also...for almost all FJ girls, I think it's difficult to apply the term dramatic, coloratura, soulbrette,etc to them, coz these terms are for operatic singing. Wakana&Yuriko have sung a kind of quite operatic piece for Yuki, but it isn't for the other girls. I found this quote from another page of wiki :).
For the professional opera singers like Yuri and Hanae, I think it's reasonable to discuss about this.. and maybe also for Yuriko, Wakana, and Eri. (Coz some of songs that they sang for Yuki are a kind of opera-like) But the problem is as I replied before that Yuki's operatic pieces do not require much operatic singing technique, and the result is it's difficult to classify her singers in subcategories relating to operatic technique...
. We may be draftly specify them as lyric or dramatic type coz these two properties are more related to the voice characteristic.
About coloratura, I'm quite sure that we never have coloratura singing part in Yuki's works so it seems that we can't tell which singers are coloratura and which ones are not. Because coloratura isn't just about the quality of voice, but it's about the technique. (Yuri is an exceptional coz she sings as Queen of Nights for Tokyo Konsei and I have heard that piece before, so I can say that she should be coloratura.)
I guessed before that Yuriko&Eri may be spinto because their voices aren't as light as soulbrette&lyric sopranos that I heard before, but it's possible that they can be dramatic coloratura. However, we can't tell, because we haven't heard they sing in that way for Yuki.... (It seems that both of them have quite different styles when they sing for their own solo songs.., right? )
Edit: ok...I found this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloratura_soprano
There is the list of the voice categories for all roles in opera. So Yuri's Queen of the Night is really in the dramatic coloratura soprano type. I think we can confirm Hanae's type as well if we know the role that she usually sings for opera :).
It's ok..^^. I'm still unable to find an example of energetic singing that Hanae sang for Yuki though...KP-X said:
. Even Frenetic is still a smooth&calm style if we consider only her voice.As for Wakana case, I think I change my mind after listening some tracks from RHH today...^ ^ll. now I think she's indeed in Soprano..- -"..., but may be just a soulbrette. And for your question, mainly it's because when we talk about coloratura soprano/dramatic soprano/etc, it's the category for operatic singing. While when we say that this singer is soprano, messo-soprano, etc., it isn't about the operatic thing.
Some of messo-soprano operatic singing can be so high that ordinary messo-soprano pop singers can't deal with. (Carmen, for example, is messo-soprano role, but can you imagin Yuuka or Hikaru sing as Carmen perfectly..? It may be difficult even for Kaori or Wakana.) So I think it isn't weird if soprano (in non-classical sense) singer fall in the messo-soprano category for opera.
Also...for almost all FJ girls, I think it's difficult to apply the term dramatic, coloratura, soulbrette,etc to them, coz these terms are for operatic singing. Wakana&Yuriko have sung a kind of quite operatic piece for Yuki, but it isn't for the other girls. I found this quote from another page of wiki :).
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_clas ... ical_music
For the professional opera singers like Yuri and Hanae, I think it's reasonable to discuss about this.. and maybe also for Yuriko, Wakana, and Eri. (Coz some of songs that they sang for Yuki are a kind of opera-like) But the problem is as I replied before that Yuki's operatic pieces do not require much operatic singing technique, and the result is it's difficult to classify her singers in subcategories relating to operatic technique...
. We may be draftly specify them as lyric or dramatic type coz these two properties are more related to the voice characteristic.About coloratura, I'm quite sure that we never have coloratura singing part in Yuki's works so it seems that we can't tell which singers are coloratura and which ones are not. Because coloratura isn't just about the quality of voice, but it's about the technique. (Yuri is an exceptional coz she sings as Queen of Nights for Tokyo Konsei and I have heard that piece before, so I can say that she should be coloratura.)
I guessed before that Yuriko&Eri may be spinto because their voices aren't as light as soulbrette&lyric sopranos that I heard before, but it's possible that they can be dramatic coloratura. However, we can't tell, because we haven't heard they sing in that way for Yuki...
. (It seems that both of them have quite different styles when they sing for their own solo songs.., right? )Edit: ok...I found this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloratura_soprano
There is the list of the voice categories for all roles in opera. So Yuri's Queen of the Night is really in the dramatic coloratura soprano type. I think we can confirm Hanae's type as well if we know the role that she usually sings for opera :).
C
Cerise
Guest
Just asking...is it less tiring for a singer to use falsetto than try to reach higher notes by belting it out in normal voice? 
W
wintersviolet
Guest
^ I think singers usually use falsetto when they can't reach the notes with their chest/head voices, so it's hard to make a comparison between the two for the same notes. Chest/head voice would be straining; on the other hand, falsetto isn't as stable. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
I have something else to ask that's a bit off-topic, hope no one minds.
If one listens to more recent renditions of "oblivious" Wakana is singing her "ahh"s differently from the Seventh Heaven live version. Has she switched from singing normally to falsetto, or is she singing normally but with less power? Does this mean her range has diminished a bit over the years? (She was showing a lot of strain in After Eden live, after all.)
BTW I believe Maya is a mezzosoprano who leans toward lower notes. She sounded strong when singing the ARIA chorus (in Hikaru's range) and steady in her sprinter solos and ARIA melodies (lower). And although she hit the higher notes in Kizuato she was reedy.
I have something else to ask that's a bit off-topic, hope no one minds.
If one listens to more recent renditions of "oblivious" Wakana is singing her "ahh"s differently from the Seventh Heaven live version. Has she switched from singing normally to falsetto, or is she singing normally but with less power? Does this mean her range has diminished a bit over the years? (She was showing a lot of strain in After Eden live, after all.)
BTW I believe Maya is a mezzosoprano who leans toward lower notes. She sounded strong when singing the ARIA chorus (in Hikaru's range) and steady in her sprinter solos and ARIA melodies (lower). And although she hit the higher notes in Kizuato she was reedy.
G
garnetjester
Guest
I don't know if you can diminish your range unless you're affected by some larynx condition, so I would be inclined to think that maybe it's easier for her to do it in falsetto.
I think falsetto is easier to hit because it's harder to control your head voice when it's at the limit of your range, but it is less stable. I'm just talking from personal experience though, so I don't know if it's like this for everyone.
I think falsetto is easier to hit because it's harder to control your head voice when it's at the limit of your range, but it is less stable. I'm just talking from personal experience though, so I don't know if it's like this for everyone.
W
wintersviolet
Guest
Thanks for responding 
I think it's possible due to factors such as vocal cord damage, not taking care of one's voice (ex: not having the proper diet/warming up properly before singing), singing incorrectly for long periods of time, singing while ill, or older age. Not accusing Wakana of anything BTW, just saying it can happen. (Again, if I'm wrong about any of this feel free to correct me.)
I'd also be inclined to think it's easier for her to sing in falsetto, but I have to disagree. It seems she's performing the part quite easily in the SH live (head voice/falsetto?) while it's taking a more visible effort with falsetto in the recent lives. The way she sings now has an easier transition between the highest note and the others, but results in her struggling to sustain the long "ah". What's interesting is Hikaru has always sung the part in complete falsetto, but can hold the note and appears to have an easier time though she's not a soprano.
EDIT: To sum it up, I think Wakana has switched to falsetto because she can no longer hit the notes comfortably in her head voice. It doesn't seem to be a choice because she's having a harder time now than she did then.
I think it's possible due to factors such as vocal cord damage, not taking care of one's voice (ex: not having the proper diet/warming up properly before singing), singing incorrectly for long periods of time, singing while ill, or older age. Not accusing Wakana of anything BTW, just saying it can happen. (Again, if I'm wrong about any of this feel free to correct me.)
I'd also be inclined to think it's easier for her to sing in falsetto, but I have to disagree. It seems she's performing the part quite easily in the SH live (head voice/falsetto?) while it's taking a more visible effort with falsetto in the recent lives. The way she sings now has an easier transition between the highest note and the others, but results in her struggling to sustain the long "ah". What's interesting is Hikaru has always sung the part in complete falsetto, but can hold the note and appears to have an easier time though she's not a soprano.
EDIT: To sum it up, I think Wakana has switched to falsetto because she can no longer hit the notes comfortably in her head voice. It doesn't seem to be a choice because she's having a harder time now than she did then.