Kajiuras music quality is dropping?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chibi-Chibi
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And there are minions of those out there. Reality is cruel, ain't it? :TdT:
I don't think many people in pop music industry are doing it "for the art" nowadays. It's either earning money or trying to express yourself or doing what you enjoy doing (and which is coincidentally enjoyed by the audience as well), or all three combined.
 
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grunty said:
If an artist is doing the same things over and over again then I'm simply no longer interested - I can listen to the original tracks that brought me to this artist in the first place. I'll bring Bjork in here whom I used to be a HUGE fan of. Bjork has been stuck in a corner since Vespertine

I will agree to Volta which sounds horrible, and Biophillia which sounds like Vespertine (Well... I do hope this one gets better... I like Crystalline but... not very ground breaking. Virus is a total rip-off of Vespertine. Mutual Core? is Alarm Call... Moon? Hmmmm.....).
But don't you think Medulla is something new? Human voices as instrument?
 
Human voices as instrument?

I don't know much about Bjork, but from what I've read about her... hasn't it been quite a while since she started using those? I kinda had an impression that's one of her main features. :confu: :ayashii:
 
^Nope. She is mostly electronica, while Medulla uses mostly human voices (beat boxing, throat singing, though some tracks used altered voices)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=333S9104hWs

Debut : Jazzy Classic
Post : Trip Hop
Homogenic : Electronica Strings
Dancer in the dark : some real noises like steps, machines, train
Vespertine : Chamber instruments (harps, choir)
Medulla: Human voices, piano + gong in some tracks.
Volta : Brass, tribal electronic drums.
 
I can't really comment on music quality dropping, since a musical success for me is something that I, personally, like listening to. That doesn't mean the song is good, per se, but I don't listen music to sit and analyse how there is an excellent use of accelerando in this unique and creative revision of a polka, I listen to music to enjoy listening to music. And so if I enjoy listening to it, I think it's successful.

I only start complaining when it's ridiculously bad or I don't like listening to it at all, or if it's insanely popular and yet people seem to be in denial out of any bad aspects, so I put on my critic goggles and start pulling down the truth.

I think the El Cazador OST is underrated too...

...My favourite is the Mai-HiME soundtrack... :spotlight:
 
Mai-Hime certainly isn't underrated, I recall many people who listed it as their favourite. :ayashii: :sparkleguy:
It is less "album-like" than Yuki's Bee Train OSTs, thus relying more on scene-supporting BGM which results in a lesser number of standalone instrumentals. Because of this it doesn't seem as popular as some other of Yuki's works (and Mai-OtoMe OST2 had some tracklist compilation issues to boot). But the whole thing is still of much value, practically marking Yuki's transition from keyboard/guitar-heavy arrangements to real strings and full orchestra (although her whole 2004 OST line-up can serve as such a mark). :cheer: by strings, I mean the use of a whole set, not one or two violins which Yuki introduced to her music much earlier :ayashii:
And one can't forget the bunch of classics these OSTs gave us. :nosebleed: :dote:
 
I agree on everything that Nick posted.
coz he already posted the things that i was thinking XD
It doesn't mean that when artists work comes out the same over and over again or if he doesn't try new things for you means the music quality is dropping.for me, i think Yuki also stays on her identity or trademark as an artist. but i doubt if she doesn't welcome growth as an artist.people may dislike some of her music release, she can't please everyone after all.

P.S. it's good to know that Grunty-san still is looking forward for Madlax :]
 
Y'know, the comments on girugamesh videos have got me thinking.

They're a band that started out in heavy metal. They got a lot of fans through that. Then they decided to change their style to somewhat metal-pop without as much screaming, even adding in a few ballads. For that, they've gotten some new fans but also a lot of very angry old fans. And by angry fans, I mean fans who feel personally betrayed by this change and are yelling in caps and insulting the band. On a slightly off-topic note, I find that to be one of the most immature things that can be done online. As if the band decided to change just to betray people!

On the other hand, Kajiura-sensei started out with a certain style. It's a very flexible style, given her many forays into different genres, so let's take her vocal song style as the best example - violin, Kajiurago chorus, long and dreamy-sounding, etc. She hasn't left this style for years, and shows no signs of making any drastic changes like giru. Although no one has resorted to name-calling, a lot of people here are dissatisfied with her lack of change in both composition and arrangement.

So who's right? Are the giru fans right, in saying that the band should have never changed? Or are the fans here right, in saying that there should be a change?

My opinion is that both are right, to an extent. Sometimes change is necessary and sometimes change is unnecessary. This necessity, or lack of necessity, is based on separate, personal opinions. I feel that a change was the best thing giru could have done, not being a fan of their screaming style - while many others, who are fans of that style, feel that no change was needed. I feel that Kajiura-sensei doesn't need to change anytime soon, being a fan of her style - while many others, who are growing tired of that style, want a change. Although I'm dissatisfied with the way the giru fans express their opinions, I'm not going to try to change them; nor am I going to try to change the opinions of people on this forum.

In the end, I think that fighting between these two groups is inevitable, but their separate opinions should be respected. Although I am extremely relieved that no one has started acting like a lot of giru fans on Youtube.

Sorry for rambling. That's just my opinion on this situation :bow:
 
problem with old/new fans...


when Kajiura releases a new song that is similar on her old style they rant because they want a new style.....
then if Kajiura tried a new style...teh fans also complain and they want the old style, because of the this what whatever blabber they have ...
 
IMHO you're either putting everything in a single bag or getting things mixed up a little.

Kajiura's "style", or "sound", is what attracted me to her music. What I want is more variety in her actual compositions so, for example, avoiding reusing the same melodies and candences in her tracks - it's not necessarily an issue of her changing the "style" itself.
 
Indeed. :ohoho: That's just what I was talking about when I imagined Kajiurago being taken away and questioned how long it would take us to want it back. :XD: According to a Russian saying, there are times when the better may become the enemy of the good. Mind you, that doesn't mean that there should be no changes at all - they just should come at their own pace.

On the other hand, Kajiura-sensei started out with a certain style. It's a very flexible style, given her many forays into different genres, so let's take her vocal song style as the best example - violin, Kajiurago chorus, long and dreamy-sounding, etc. She hasn't left this style for years, and shows no signs of making any drastic changes like giru. Although no one has resorted to name-calling, a lot of people here are dissatisfied with her lack of change in both composition and arrangement.

I'd like to add that IMHO Yuki's style did undergo some changes, regardless of how significant we may interpret them as. Observing her OST works as the primary example, it's easy to see that the period from 1996 to 2000 her style can be characterized by using piano and other acoustic stuff for more mellow/gentle/melancholic themes and keyboards for more ominous/mysterious/intense themes (not an exact division, but roughly so). This trend was carried on into 2001-2003, but with the introduction of Yuki's three cornerstones - chorus, flute and violin. The heavily European direction that Noir and Dot Hack OSTs took definitely help to bring more stylistic tweaks and instruments into the fray, plus Noir set the general course for her "techno/operatic" trademark music and Aquarian Age introduced Kajiurago (although it didn't take over until 2004). 2004 in particular was the year when Yuki's OSTs went to employ strings and full orchestra. This is where her modern/classic blend becomes a driving force, arrangements become more ethereal at times and the OSTs start bearing more in common with traditional soundtrack music (YMMV whether it's a good or bad thing :ohoho: ). And I'd say this continued well into 2007. This year has, on one hand, Hokuto no Ken that sounds very traditional (kinda like some of John Williams works), and on the other hand, El Cazador, the last Bee Train collab to date which sounds original even for Kajiura/Mashimo series, dwelling deeply into American music and guitar sound. :ayashii: Then, the current period starting in 2008. It's marked by Kara no Kyoukai, where Yuki starts making SFX-driven, ambient and slightly psychodelic tracks a prominent part of the OST. These arrangements, along with grim cello and mysterious percussions, were present in her works way before, but only since KnK they have been used distinctively, both in Pandora Hearts and Madoka Magica (and I bet we'll hear more of this in Fate/Zero, too :stars: ). Then again, this period also has Achilles to Kame and 15-year-old Soldier OSTs both of which are probably the MOST traditional soundtracks Yuki's ever written. :ayashii:
I think the reason we see Yuki's style as the same is because her "handwriting" as a composer is well-formed and recognizable already. It's not the melodies that are similar to each other, it's their structure - the certain ways of combining different parts and chords into a sequence. It is the same as a writer's habitual choice of words and tropes. Maybe this is what tick many people off, but personally I found this in quite a number of other artist's careers, so I guess that's why I'm more tolerant to it - I just don't consider it abnormal. Also, I don't see Yuki ever abandoning the previous arrangement approaches completely - they are more or less present in each of her works. That's how her overall style sums up.
Experiments? Actually, I think we're better off expecting them in OSTs as well. While the songs Yuki writes generally correspond to the image of the project (See-Saw songs, Saeko Chiba songs, FJ(Y) songs and Kalafina songs all have a different approach to them), I believe it's the OSTs she gets most challenges in, since different plots deal with different settings, moods and atmospheres, thus causing the need for new styles and arrangements to be used. :plot:

hopefully you realize that I'm NO expert in music, so the whole analysis above is just my IMHO. :spotlight: :XD:

What I want is more variety in her actual compositions

Oh, this we ALL would welcome anytime. What fan of what artist wouldn't? :XD:
 
Re:

Nick Hunter said:
What I want is more variety in her actual compositions

Oh, this we ALL would welcome anytime. What fan of what artist wouldn't? :XD:

Orly? I don't see that many others complaining about the lack of it though. Whenever someone actually dares to the rest acts butthurt.
 
Because welcoming variety and not being able to live without it are different things for some. :XD: If I was one to be gnawed by it in particular, I wouldn't be able to enjoy about HALF of the artists and groups in my playlist. Elton John, Ali Project, Bryan Adams, Akiko Shikata - they all have their own set of composing methods which leads to repetitiveness at times. I don't think many composers could avoid it completely.
People may get butthurt when a complaint suggests the composer isn't worth a dime anymore once the melodies start getting repetitive. But if reusing recipes was forbidden, Yuki would have had to quit five years ago if not earlier. Being original in every release is an inhuman attempt unless you present one record per decade. But if you give your fans up to average five CDs worth of music per year like Yuki does... There had to be a catch to it, don't you think? This is universal balance. :ohoho: :XD:

So the real difference is about getting annoyed by hearing these same recipes or being alright with them. In my case, many of these recipes are what I've LONG wanted to hear in music since I started listening to it, so once I've found an artist like Yuki, it may simply be a LOOOOONG time before I start getting tired of her style. I won't be as overconfident as to say I never will get tired, but I fail to see it coming in the nearest future. :tea:
 
I see, so the problem is actually my own standards and tolerance level! Yegads! Epiphany! All this time I've been blaming Kajiura while it has always been me.

This has been informative, thank you.
 
And then you go and act surprised when I mention your irony. :XD: It could easily be the other way around, this being MY problem that my tolerance is too big. :ohoho: Standards and tolerance level DO differ from person to person, if it was news to you. They are part of what makes up a taste, and tastes are bound to clash. The forum wouldn't be a forum without it.
It's not like being grunty about new releases of an artist makes you less of a fan of the older works. :tea: And while you like the artist's day of glory (regardless of how you define them), you'll check every new release in hope to get more of them. Butthurts are irrelevant in the end - it's your right to get grunty about things you were disappointed with and it's mine to retort with fangirl BS when I feel like it. :ohoho: I think I already told someone here that I enjoy such arguments. Defending your point is the best way to understand why you stick to it at all. :ayashii:

So in case you get such an impression - no, I in particular don't get butthurt by your YK reviews. I just suggest why some may be. And sorry, you remain a Yuki Kajiura fan in my book no matter what signature you make. :plot:

Btw, I'm waiting for MADLAX complete OST release just as much. :V: Although it's just one of many things I'm friggin' WAITING for to happen... :psst:
 
^ really interesting discussion Ι should admit.

@ Nick: among them a The Works for Soundtrack vol2 with Tokyo Revelations Hokuto no Ken and Madlax unreleased music :stars:
 
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Why... you actually made several valid points in there I think. This may be the best post of yours to date, Nick. :P

I would, however, elaborate on this statement.

And while you like the artist's day of glory (regardless of how you define them), you'll check every new release in hope to get more of them.

I'm personally not really expecting any kind of RETURN to the "days of glory" on new releases - I don't want another MADLAX, I don't want any repeats. What I'm hoping to get from a new release is a feeling of SURPRISE (that I may have gotten on the earlier shows :p). Note that it's not the in your eyes "WHAT THE FUCK AM I LISTENING TO" feeling that I want.

I suppose this goes back to my melody/cadence reuse complaint in the previous post but when -I think- I know what's coming in the next second of a melody (and harmony too) I'd actually love to hear something opposite happen. I want twists and turns in my melodies! Unfortunately on current Kajiura records everything goes as one may expect after getting familiar with her music. Throw me a curveball damnit!

PS. I wonder if the "Akiko Shikata repetitiveness" comment was a provocation on your part. I'll let it slide for now but know I could definitely argue this hard. :P
 
Re: Re:

grunty said:
Why... you actually made several valid points in there I think. This may be the best post of yours to date, Nick. :P

I would, however, elaborate on this statement.

And while you like the artist's day of glory (regardless of how you define them), you'll check every new release in hope to get more of them.

I'm personally not really expecting any kind of RETURN to the "days of glory" on new releases - I don't want another MADLAX, I don't want any repeats. What I'm hoping to get from a new release is a feeling of SURPRISE (that I may have gotten on the earlier shows :p). Note that it's not the in your eyes "WHAT THE FUCK AM I LISTENING TO" feeling that I want.

I suppose this goes back to my melody/cadence reuse complaint in the previous post but when -I think- I know what's coming in the next second of a melody (and harmony too) I'd actually love to hear something opposite happen. I want twists and turns in my melodies! Unfortunately on current Kajiura records everything goes as one may expect after getting familiar with her music. Throw me a curveball damnit!

PS. I wonder if the "Akiko Shikata repetitiveness" comment was a provocation on your part. I'll let it slide for now but know I could definitely argue this hard. :P

There's nothing more to be said.
 
Re:

Nick Hunter said:
Because welcoming variety and not being able to live without it are different things for some. :XD: If I was one to be gnawed by it in particular, I wouldn't be able to enjoy about HALF of the artists and groups in my playlist. Elton John, Ali Project, Bryan Adams, Akiko Shikata...

After listening to some of Akiko Shikata's songs, for me, they are all the same. And yeah, if Yuki's music is repetitive, what would someone say about ALI PROJECT? And I really like ALI.
 
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