K
KP-X
Guest
Ha, finally a good episode. Saber is really pathetic. Regardless of Kiritsugu's actions, his view seems like a much more plausable one.
K
Kazado
Guest
I wonder if they played the full version of the PV music or if they played the pv music + in-anime version of the pv music 
Nice to hear Yuriko's whispering voice.
Nice to hear Yuriko's whispering voice.
george1234
Moderator
In the screen with the hand cut off, the woman's reaction was somehow funny even though gore, "oh my right hand gone" that urobuchi...
Kiritsugu is so emotionless, he could wait for the battle of the spirits to finish first.
From Fate/ Stay Night start looks like Lancer's curse gets fullfield completely :S
that urobuchi...Kiritsugu is so emotionless, he could wait for the battle of the spirits to finish first.
From Fate/ Stay Night start looks like Lancer's curse gets fullfield completely :S
Also was it me or the PV BGM was this time has its volume lowered way too much?
Nick Hunter
I have reached Yuki nirvana
Man, what an Urobuchi-esque episode... 
Kiritsugu sure seems to subvert as many battle tropes as possible.
As to his talk with Saber, IMHO both have a point. Battlefield IS pure hell (which I believe is the theme of the whole story), but pride and honor were invented to TRY and remain as human as possible in this hell. Especially if you're on the defensive side... except that Grail Wars hardly have one, and thus may not exactly have a place for heroes (which makes it cruel irony that they're waged with the hands of Heroic Spirits).
Anyway, messing with this pride and honor of Heroic Spirits might just prove to have been a bad idea for Kiritsugu this time. Lancer's words really sound like a foreshadowing (and Saber's words sound like a promise of an extensive Kiritsugu-themed flashback to come
). I'll opt to keep the events of this episode in mind as we move towards the ending. 
I may be wrong, of course, but Madoka left me with the impression that Urobuchi hates to waste a single paragraph in the script.
And last but not least: Iri.
"Thanks" to the opening, I can't even hold any hopes until the last moment like I did with Sayaka. It's one long funeral... And watching the ED (whose lyrics are apparently from Iri's perspective) becomes a bit painful already. 
Sora wa Takaku keeps growing on me, though. I like the verses a lot now, but the refrain still takes the cake - the melody rising in "kaze wa utau" is so my cup of tea, it's breathtaking. 
But they did the song nothing but good. Even in arragements of other songs, Yuki+Eri combo is something you can seldom go wrong with.
Kiritsugu sure seems to subvert as many battle tropes as possible.
If you need to get rid of a guy. why not just snipe him out? If a threat comes from a command seal on someone's hand, why not remove the hand?
As to his talk with Saber, IMHO both have a point. Battlefield IS pure hell (which I believe is the theme of the whole story), but pride and honor were invented to TRY and remain as human as possible in this hell. Especially if you're on the defensive side... except that Grail Wars hardly have one, and thus may not exactly have a place for heroes (which makes it cruel irony that they're waged with the hands of Heroic Spirits).
Anyway, messing with this pride and honor of Heroic Spirits might just prove to have been a bad idea for Kiritsugu this time. Lancer's words really sound like a foreshadowing (and Saber's words sound like a promise of an extensive Kiritsugu-themed flashback to come
). I'll opt to keep the events of this episode in mind as we move towards the ending. I may be wrong, of course, but Madoka left me with the impression that Urobuchi hates to waste a single paragraph in the script.
And last but not least: Iri.
"Thanks" to the opening, I can't even hold any hopes until the last moment like I did with Sayaka. It's one long funeral... And watching the ED (whose lyrics are apparently from Iri's perspective) becomes a bit painful already. Sora wa Takaku keeps growing on me, though. I like the verses a lot now, but the refrain still takes the cake - the melody rising in "kaze wa utau" is so my cup of tea, it's breathtaking. But they did the song nothing but good. Even in arragements of other songs, Yuki+Eri combo is something you can seldom go wrong with.
X
Xamdou
Guest
@Nick
And yeah, I wish Iri could have a happy ending but.....
Kiritsugu did say that in order for the servant to not find another master after the current one was defeated or vice versa, both of them needs to be killed at the same time.
Nick Hunter
I have reached Yuki nirvana
@Xamdou: I understand the purpose, but I'm talking about the consequences. Of course, whether a Heroic Spirit's words can possibly affect the Grail is yet to be seen, but knowing Gen "worst logical scenario" Urobuchi, I do have my suspicions.
K
KP-X
Guest
I got two impressions with this episode:
- both ideas are extreme and I'd like to say a balanced one (pity that Urobuchi seems to want to problematize war but he fails because he is too extreme)
- Iri and Kiritsugu doesn't seem like a couple...at all.
- both ideas are extreme and I'd like to say a balanced one (pity that Urobuchi seems to want to problematize war but he fails because he is too extreme)
- Iri and Kiritsugu doesn't seem like a couple...at all.
Nick Hunter
I have reached Yuki nirvana
So far, ED2 and the very beginning of the first episode are the only moments where they do seem like one. Maybe we'll get more fluff in the flashbacks, I don't know.
K
KP-X
Guest
It's not about fluffy moments, but more about their closeness as a couple. Idk, Iri seemed so oblivious to Kiritsugu's harsh nature that it was almost like she only knew half or 1/3 of him. Like, they fell in love and like each other but when it comes to them knowing each other, they just really skipped this lol
Nick Hunter
I have reached Yuki nirvana
Yep, I didn't mean the fluff alone either. The ED shows Iri to provide moral support for Kiritsugu, and I expect the show to elaborate on how it began. Must point out that the depths of Kiritsugu's personality may well fall into the long list of things Iri hasn't learnt yet. Given who she is, we don't even know how long she's actually lived.
Einzberns didn't cook her up right in time for the wedding day, did they?
K
Kagaribi no Hanabira
Guest
Nick, I like your 'Urobuchi-esque' adjective... .
Well....As for Kiri-Iri, I think they just try to live as if they aren't closed to each other during the Grail War to hide the fact that Kiritsugu is Saber's real master. But I think Iri has mentioned another reason about this during her conversation with Saber at the beach...sth. like Kiritsugu'd be painful when he's with her or sth. like that...
. So I think their relationship may be so complicated and different from normal couple since the start...
But for the fact that it seems like Iri didn't know Kiritsugu so well, isn't it a common thing...? Esp. when it's a harsh&bad nature of themselves...any people in the world tend to hide it from the person they love. (I doubted that Tokiomi told his wife&daughter what he thought about sending Sakura to Matou family like he told Kariya...or that mother knew well and still accepted his decision... .) And if they can open everything to each other from the best to the worst, they must be a kind of very ideal ones. (But I won't say that these kind of couples don't exist.) I think it isn't a weird thing even in the real world... . I'm not that pessimistic..., but I'm just not too idealistic as well...
.Now I understand why everyone hate Kiritsugu...=_____=. But his extreme distorted will is still so catching... As well as Rider's, but in extremely different way... .
.Well....As for Kiri-Iri, I think they just try to live as if they aren't closed to each other during the Grail War to hide the fact that Kiritsugu is Saber's real master. But I think Iri has mentioned another reason about this during her conversation with Saber at the beach...sth. like Kiritsugu'd be painful when he's with her or sth. like that...
. So I think their relationship may be so complicated and different from normal couple since the start... But for the fact that it seems like Iri didn't know Kiritsugu so well, isn't it a common thing...? Esp. when it's a harsh&bad nature of themselves...any people in the world tend to hide it from the person they love. (I doubted that Tokiomi told his wife&daughter what he thought about sending Sakura to Matou family like he told Kariya...or that mother knew well and still accepted his decision...
.) And if they can open everything to each other from the best to the worst, they must be a kind of very ideal ones. (But I won't say that these kind of couples don't exist.) I think it isn't a weird thing even in the real world... . I'm not that pessimistic..., but I'm just not too idealistic as well...
K
KP-X
Guest
^I know the reasons why they are physically separated during the war. It may be common but that doesn't make it be less shallow than it is here, at least for me. Maybe it's just that their connection seems like a superficial one, like they're just licking each others wounds when they are together.
Oh well, I bet they'll throw in an episode way too late that shows more of their relationship just so they can say they expanded on it. Lol the incompetence.
Oh well, I bet they'll throw in an episode way too late that shows more of their relationship just so they can say they expanded on it. Lol the incompetence.
X
Xamdou
Guest
Re:
Spoiler of spoilerNick Hunter said:
The answer is no, the Grail was already tainted ever since the 3rd war because of Avenger and the Grail was never complete although it was near completion during Heaven's Feel route but once the Heroic Spirit dies, it becomes just mere prana for the Grail/Iri to be completed. 
T
Tsiih
Guest
Re:
^^; Eto... am I the only weirdo who agreed with his methods and his side of the argument with Saber? .___.; I don't know. Either I understand what Kiritsugu is getting at or... I must be cold. ._____.;
Kagaribi no Hanabira said:Now I understand why everyone hate Kiritsugu...=_____=. But his extreme distorted will is still so catching... As well as Rider's, but in extremely different way...
^^; Eto... am I the only weirdo who agreed with his methods and his side of the argument with Saber? .___.; I don't know. Either I understand what Kiritsugu is getting at or... I must be cold. ._____.;
K
KP-X
Guest
^Don't worry, I'm with you. At least he's not hypocrite.
K
Kagaribi no Hanabira
Guest
@Tsiih&KP-X I guess I'm also on your side...lol. At least, his fundamental idea isn't something too bad to accept like Caster's team and Gilgamesh...(and..may be more in the future....- -"...? I already feel bad for characters like that Matou's head and also Tokiomi...who knows..will I change my mind when time goes by..?)
@Nick I forgot to respond to your issue about Iri's age...
@Nick I forgot to respond to your issue about Iri's age...
Well...according to Ilya's growth rate...I suspect that the head of Matou&Einzbern may be only two humen in this series who older than Iri... 
.
.
T
Tsiih
Guest
^ ;___; I feel bad for Kariya too!
And on a random note, the moment Kayneth's cockiness returned, somewhere in the back of my mind I thought, ">___> Geeeee... I totally regret feeling sorry for him when Sola was threatening him for the command seals... They're both whackos!!!!"
But for now in the recent epi, felt so bad for Lancer!! I don't like his master Kayneth but Lancer was cool.
Re:
Kagaribi no Hanabira said:@Nick I forgot to respond to your issue about Iri's age...
Well...according to Ilya's growth rate...I suspect that the head of Matou&Einzbern may be only two humen in this series who older than Iri...
I think Irisviel was created 10 years before the war that is taking place in Fate/Zero.
Jubstacheit von Einzbern created her for Kiritsugu to use as the grail during the upcoming war.
Of course I could be wrong I wasn't really paying attention when I was listening to the Drama CD's
Jubstacheit von Einzbern created her for Kiritsugu to use as the grail during the upcoming war.
Of course I could be wrong I wasn't really paying attention when I was listening to the Drama CD's
LianaIlia36
I have reached Yuki nirvana
Just watched the eppy tonight (since I was gone this weekend) It was slow going, although i did like the Saber Lancer fight. The song was cool, and the only new one I think. I wish there had been more music. lol Maybe next time.