Madoka Magica movies

I'm watching the movie with a group of friends on the Saturday after next...looks like now I actually have to finish the whole TV series beforehand :ohoho:
 
^Is it online somewhere? I would like to watch it with my brother. I guess I could look at the sites I have.
 
@Lord Starfish
I agree that none of the movies would've ended up on the Oscar shortlist anyway. I just think movie 1 would've been the lesser of the two evils, if they're gonna push something. Yeah, it worked much better as a TV show, but better half of a coherent story than the whole of an incoherent one.

To be honest, I don't think any of the movies stood a chance regardless of their pacing, structure, and quality. People outside the anime sphere would have a hard time understanding their significance. To me, it's pointless to analyze why it can't win from a storytelling perspective--I think the aesthetics alone would've knocked it off the list, and it's too optimistic to think the Oscar judges actually evaluated it based on storytelling.

I didn't dislike Rebellion nearly as much as you did, granted: yes, the opening "happy" part dragged too long, but I kinda dug the trippy imagery (not surprising for me...), and I don't feel the "yuri" was just fanservice. Yes, I think having Homura do everything out of a deep friendship, without needing to turn it into love, would've been more unique. But at the same time, it's kinda unfair to dismiss it as a fanservice just 'cause it's yuri (I assume you have other reasons for thinking that way, but even if it's included for the fans, I don't think the yuri slant hurts the story). And yeah, Charlotte didn't do much, but I loved the fight scene you're talking about, so I wish they'd just integrated her better instead of cutting her entirely.

As for the ending... I agree it feels like a mean-spirited diabolos ex machina. However, I think there's a bit more to it than just
Homura turned evil! Yeah, she behaves like she's evil and even has a dark revealing outfit to go with it... but if you look at what she actually does, it doesn't seem too bad. Of course, the movie isn't clear on this point, but I honestly don't think Homura became a one-dimensional evil being. They definitely needed to build up to it better, so that Homura's transformation seemed less abrupt, but it was an execution problem, not an idea problem.

I vastly prefer the series' ending and don't think Rebellion was necessary... but Rebellion was still a good story if taken on its own merits, imo.
 
@Lord Starfish
As for the ending... I agree it feels like a mean-spirited diabolos ex machina. However, I think there's a bit more to it than just
Homura turned evil! Yeah, she behaves like she's evil and even has a dark revealing outfit to go with it... but if you look at what she actually does, it doesn't seem too bad. Of course, the movie isn't clear on this point, but I honestly don't think Homura became a one-dimensional evil being. They definitely needed to build up to it better, so that Homura's transformation seemed less abrupt, but it was an execution problem, not an idea problem.
Actually, I feel that Homura's fall to... actually I'd define it less as her being evil and more of her having gone off the deep end batshit crazy... is done reasonably well. My problem with it lies with how, to me, from an in-universe perspective, what she did simply shouldn't be possible.

Like, the movie claims that it was because her Soul Gem was tainted by "love" rather than curses, but seriously... For one thing there was never any prior indication that this was possible. From what I saw in the show the system seemed pretty well defined. A Soul Gem is tainted by curses. Curses are formed through magic-consumption and negative emotions. Likewise, having your Soul Gem tainted breeds more negative emotions which in turn forms more curses within said Soul Gem, and when it hits the breaking point it turns into a Grief Seed. Now, where in this equation does the idea that one can intentionally fill a Soul Gem with love, which apparently turns you into a devil capable of suppressing the powers of the most powerful being in the universe and then rewrite the universe at will, come from? Also I would like to point out that from what the movie shows us, Homura is actually way more powerful than Madoka now. Because really, what Madoka did was just make a wish with some pretty overwhelming ramifications, forcing the universe to change to accomodate it. Whereas Homura, though? She clearly just dragged Madoka down to mediocrity, suppressed her memories, somehow managed to keep Madoka's system running without Madoka, and can apparently consciously rewrite people's entire history and memories and all that jazz whenever she feels like it. Also unlike Madoka there seems to have been no negative reprecussions for this. Well, I mean aside from how she seems to be horribly mentally unstable by now, but I daresay that had happened already before she rewrote all of time and space to create her own perfect paradise.

Another rather common fan-theory I see is that this all happened because Madoka and Homura's wishes contradicted each other. Like, Homura wished to save Madoka, Madoka made a wish which, to be granted, required her to basically die. But this doesn't quite add up to me either for a number of reasons:
1: If the universe was so keen on granting Homura's wish no matter what... why would it take this long for it to be granted? According to Urobuchi, she had to witness Madoka dying in various ways only to go back to the beginning and try again roughly one hundred times. That's like ten years' worth of constant failures. And then if the contradiction of their two wishes apparently caused the universe to short-circuit... why did this not happen when Madoka made the wish? Why did it only come to pass when Homura was about to die?
2: While this was never outright stated in the show, I think it can safely be assumed that there are certain limitations to what Kyubey's wish-granting can do. Which is to say, he can't grant a wish unless the girl making it has enough magical potential to actually carry it out. Actually, I always assumed that what Kyubey really does is just unlock their magic potential, create their Soul Gem and then the Magical Girl makes the wish come true herself with her newfound power. I mean, at several points he does point out how like "Yes, this wish you are thinking of should definitely be grantable with your power." He says this both to Sayaka in regards to healing Kyousuke, and again to Madoka when she considers making a contract to turn Sayaka back to normal. Not to mention if he really can grant any wish for anyone, that would to me severely cheapen the ending of the show, as it would imply that anyone could have done what Madoka did. So, where am I going with all this? Simple: Homura, in the grand scheme of things, did not appear to be all that powerful in the show. She never managed to harm Walpurgisnacht, and her fighting style basically just consisted of "Freeze time for a bit and then throw a bomb at the target". By comparison, Madoka, even in the very first timeline, managed to defeat Walpurgisnacht, though she died trying. And while it was of course very thoroughly shown how Madoka became more and more powerful with each rewind because of Homura inadvertedly linking the strings of karma from other timelines into the present day Madoka, at no point were we given any indication that this was affecting Homura in any way. And people have brought up that image of Madoka tied up by those strings of karma which is later repeated with Homura in episode 11, but... seriously, I'd say it's pretty obvious that this is not meant to mean "MADOKA HAS UNIVERSE-REWRITING POWERS!!!" and "HOMURA ALSO HAS UNIVERSE-REWRITING POWERS!!!". Really, the meaning of those shots are pretty much spelled out even as we see them. Which is, Homura's time-traveling has doomed the both of them to a horrible fate.
Also we have never been given any indication that like, the nature of someone's powers can change along the way to accommodate their wishes either, which is something that would have to have happened for Homura's sudden Hostile Takeover of all of reality to make any sense.

Oh and by the way, that conflicting wishes theory? Yeah, that's the most plausible theory I've heard so far. Considering what a massive wall of text I just wrote explaining why it doesn't work IMO, I suppose that's saying something about how little sense I feel this whole thing made.

Oh, and on another topic entirely, unrelated from whether this makes sense or not... I've been thinking a fair bit about the implications of this ending, and I've come to realize that...
really... this ending is messed up like crazy. Like, I already mentioned how as far as I'm concerned, Homura has gone completely insane by this point. Like, literally nothing from her "I've waited for this moment" up to the post-credits scene with her dancing around on the hill before falling over the edge (symbolism that she's literally fallen off the deep end?) indicates that she's even remotely sane anymore. And this horribly mentally unstable, self-proclaimed devil, now has control of all of creation. Surely I needn't point out why this is a bad thing. And considering how she pretty much forcibly tore Madoka away from the purpose she'd finally gained, throwing her back down to the role of a normal human with terrible self-esteem... Does it seem at all likely that Homura will ever let Madoka actually make anything of her life? To me it seems rather like Homura will just want to maintain her perfect little paradise at all costs, and just reset it again whenever anything disagreeable happens. And incidentally I'd say the theme-song supports this line of thought, what with how it specifically mentions how "the gate to adulthood is shut tight", and how "your future, your hopes and everything, is part of a selfish tale written by someone in that distant garden". And that to me just seems to sum it all up. From this point on, Homura will just always want to keep her perfect little Madoka close, and if anything ever interferes with this... well then time to rewind time and go back to day one again!
Happy ending? What she did wasn't that bad? This is quite possibly one of the creepiest, most unsettling endings I've ever seen to any story, period.

...And yet it's still perfectly in-character for her to do this. I mean, it makes no sense that she's able to, but if one accepts that she is, then I have absolutely nothing to say against the fact that she did. It's utterly awful, certainly... but still consistent with what we know of her character.
 
Homura didn't strip Madoka of her godhood. She just breaks off one little piece of Madoka--the person Madoka was--to keep with her. Homura states this very clearly near the end. She behaves super insane, but the more I think about what she actually does, the more I wonder how much of it is just her accepting a "role" because she sees that as the best way.

As for how she can do it... I think all the rewinding timelines should've given her some special abilities too. In fact, even before this movie, I always wondered why Madoka's potential increased dramatically, while Homura's didn't outside of her becoming more skilled. I mean, yes, Homura made Madoka more important... but her own time travel abilities made her have far greater impact than any other character. I assume it's 'cause she already made her wish, but it's not implausible that she still had some stored potential inside her and turning into a witch released that.

...like I said, they really should've built up to it better. Rebellion's got issues, don't get me wrong.

I'm actually less forgiving about the change to Homura's character than you are. Minutes before, she was all willing to sacrifice herself to ensure the survival of Madoka and the world Madoka created. But right afterwards, her greatest wish changes into keeping Madoka for herself? (But it is just a portion of Madoka, so I question if it's deeply harmful). There's definitely a shift from selfless love to selfish love--I don't think Homura was always the latter. I think whatever Kyuubey did really twisted her, so I accept it, but I wish they could've built up to it better. (Yeah, there was a bit of foreshadowing during the scene where Madoka talks about how she'd never be able to give everything up and go exist alone. But there needed to be more, because it was a huge shift from Homura trying to sacrifice herself.

Oh, neither here nor there but: Madoka had Mami fighting with her during the first fight with Walpurgisnacht. Yeah, Mami died halfway through, but she definitely would've weakened Walpurgisnacht before she went. If we take what Sayaka says after the Homura-Mami fight as canon (granted, I think neither of us take Rebellion as canon, but we'll have to if we want it to explain itself), then in terms of sheer magical potential, Mami is pretty damn strong, maybe even the strongest. Contrast: Homura was facing off Walpurgisnacht alone.
 
Gen/Shinbo already said that Mami is the strongest of the medukas we know. I'll see if I can find the image.
 
As for how she can do it... I think all the rewinding timelines should've given her some special abilities too. In fact, even before this movie, I always wondered why Madoka's potential increased dramatically, while Homura's didn't outside of her becoming more skilled. I mean, yes, Homura made Madoka more important... but her own time travel abilities made her have far greater impact than any other character. I assume it's 'cause she already made her wish, but it's not implausible that she still had some stored potential inside her and turning into a witch released that.

...like I said, they really should've built up to it better. Rebellion's got issues, don't get me wrong.

I'm actually less forgiving about the change to Homura's character than you are. Minutes before, she was all willing to sacrifice herself to ensure the survival of Madoka and the world Madoka created. But right afterwards, her greatest wish changes into keeping Madoka for herself? (But it is just a portion of Madoka, so I question if it's deeply harmful). There's definitely a shift from selfless love to selfish love--I don't think Homura was always the latter. I think whatever Kyuubey did really twisted her, so I accept it, but I wish they could've built up to it better. (Yeah, there was a bit of foreshadowing during the scene where Madoka talks about how she'd never be able to give everything up and go exist alone. But there needed to be more, because it was a huge shift from Homura trying to sacrifice herself.
Funny how it seems our opinions on this are so similar and yet in a way, the exact opposite... You can kinda-sorta accept the "how"-aspect of what happened but think the "why" needed to be better established, whereas I have never seen a single clear indication that what happened was even possible, which in turn has made it impossible for me to accept that it did, but think the "why" was set up just fine... Like, the second time I watched this movie, I was pretty much just keeping my eyes peeled for things setting up the ending all the way through, and I found that really, between Homura and Madoka's conversation, the fact that Homura became a witch (without her SG transforming and somehow being reverted back afterwards... I must admit this bit was a bit weird to me), plus just the general trauma of everything that's happened to her over the course of her long, long, long, long journey to try and keep Madoka safe... I can accept that she'd reach the conclusion she did. I mean, I think she's plainly in the wrong and that she's gone completely and utterly off the deep end insane, but I can accept it.


On another note, (Well, on a related note... I'm still talking about the ending...)
I have seen claims that Homura's actions were actually neither selfish nor evil, and that it was all done in order to make sure Kyubey could never get to Madoka again... This is again a theory I take issue with due to the lack of evidence though. Or rather, considering how Homura's conversation with Kyubey at the end basically just accounted to her gloating over how she has totally just outsmarted everyone and how someone of Kyubey's nature would clearly never understand how or why she would be driven to alter the very fabric of reality... I would just think that had her motivations really been completely selfless, she might have also thrown in a "And now Madoka is forever out of your reach!" or something along those lines in her little victory-declaration.
 
I have parts of the LisAni interview translated. Not sure if I should touch up the parts I got lazy and skipped or just post what I have now. KanColle is stealing quite a bit of my time and progress has been stalling...

On another note, (Well, on a related note... I'm still talking about the ending...)
I have seen claims that Homura's actions were actually neither selfish nor evil, and that it was all done in order to make sure Kyubey could never get to Madoka again... This is again a theory I take issue with due to the lack of evidence though. Or rather, considering how Homura's conversation with Kyubey at the end basically just accounted to her gloating over how she has totally just outsmarted everyone and how someone of Kyubey's nature would clearly never understand how or why she would be driven to alter the very fabric of reality... I would just think that had her motivations really been completely selfless, she might have also thrown in a "And now Madoka is forever out of your reach!" or something along those lines in her little victory-declaration.
I did not get the impression that she was gloating.
Homura never said that she outsmarted everyone. I took it as QB wouldn't understand because it doesn't possess emotions. Love is not something one that is devoid of emotion can understand.

I agree that Madoka being out of QB's reach was not the main aim of Homura, but just a happy by-product of her actions. Her decision to do what she did was not because of QB (though it would probably be nice to keep Madoka safe as well), it was because of Madoka. She wanted to give Madoka a world where she could be happy in, as stated outright in the movie. I do think that she would do anything to protect Madoka though. This was established long ago in the TV series but, in this case, her actions were definitely selfish. It becomes selfish when Madoka herself is fine with giving up her happiness but has it forced on her by Homura. It becomes something she did solely to satisfy her own desire, which is to make Madoka happy.

I don't, however, think that she was evil. Did they have to make Homura look so depraved? Probably not. And I dislike that they did, because the first impression some will get, which I did and I overheard others doing the same, is that she is a crazy psycho lesbian. Only on second watch did I understand more. Did she have to be so antagonistic towards the other girls? This, you would have to look at the TV series. If you think she was acting fine there, then this is just more of the same. It's not that different except that she puts on an evil face now. So I personally don't think that she has turned evil. It's probably just the face (*is adamant*). Selfish, yes, but not evil.

In other news, there is finally going to be a limited 2 day screening in Singapore on the 8th and 9th of February. I'll be heading for view number 6, and maybe 7. :3
 
hm, this is kind of a small nuance that people have discussed before, but
regarding the whole "walpurgusnacht fight" or something like that... i've heard it speculated that She can really only be defeated by people who actually have magical "offensive" powers. for example, the first timeline madoka manages to finish Her off alone(i'm not including mami because iirc mami died halfway through, but she did do some damage right?) and she didn't have too much magical power to begin with, since her wish was only to save a cat from a traffic accident.

and in all the later timelines, the only time homura actually defeats walpurgunacht is when she teams up with other megucas, whether her partners number in one, two, three, or maybe even four... when we talk about firepower, homura's right up there with mami, but in the end mami is the most powerful fighter in terms of magical prowess (not counting madokami) and technique, right?
sorry for rambling OTL :bow:

on homura's whole thought process/actions, i guess these are my two cents:
i don't think homura was gloating either. but i do agree that we can call her "insane" in much the same way we call mass murderers and sociopaths "insane", right? i mean, they know that their actions would be what we consider "morally wrong" but they still do them anyways for pretty much selfish reasons, and they're fully aware of their own actions and consequences.

i see homura like this, lol.

also calling homura a "crazy psycho lesbian" makes me laugh so hard omg but i wouldn't argue against that because thanks to the third movie it's pretty much true, and i am actually not sure if i prefer to think of it that way because it gives me "shizuru"-type feels even though i didn't watch mai hime so correct me if i'm wrong on that regard so it's quite "nostalgic in a sense because it's a trope that's commonly used actuallyyyyyy in that case it reminds me of a certain 姫宮 but boyyyy does that bring up unfriendly parallels ahahaha okay just ignore me.

i wouldn't retcon the third movie though, so i guess i still think of it as canon :XD:
 
So I just got back from watching the movie today. I got shivers so many times I lost count :XD: Can't wait for the OST to come out. Also when misterioso started playing I practically jumped out of my seat into my friend's lap from the excitement. And when Kimi no Gin came on I was like "NO ONE MOVE" when my friends got up to leave and made them sit through the whole song. You gotta pay your respects to The Kalafina :hero:
 
lol Cerise.

I hope I find a job before April 2nd. I really want this soundtrack, since I still don't have the first two movie ost, but I really enjoyed the stuff I heard.
 
^ good for you, at least you wont have to pay import fees when you buy it :) and wow its only 6 days after the release in Japan.
 
http://books.rakuten.co.jp/rb/12632246/

Puella Magi Madoka Magica the Movie: Rebellion OST CD

Tracklist:
1.once we were[1:10]
2.nightmare ballet[1:55]
3.まだダメよ[0:56]
4.nice to meet you[1:15]
5.nothing special, but so special[1:10]
6.nightmare!![0:32]
7.Holly Quintet[2:51]
8.one for all[1:27]
9.he is...[1:05]
10.the battlle is over[0:51]
11.doubt[1:40]
12.something, everything is wrong[2:40]
13.raise the curtain[1:13]
14.never get there[2:31]
15.I remember[0:39]
16.face the truth[1:34]
17.doubt #2[2:26]
18.gonna fight with me[1:10]
19.absolute configuration[2:45]
20.her decision[0:53]
21.where is the truth?[0:59]
22.pulling my own weight[1:55]
23.another episode[1:28]
24.wanna destroy?[1:03]
25.dream world[1:52]
26.never leave you alone[4:53]
27.this is the truth[1:24]
28.flame of despair[1:58]
29.now he is[0:55]
30.you are here[1:49]
31.experimentation[2:13]
32.Noi![0:58]
33.the worst ending[1:34]
34.I cursed myself[2:09]
35.this is my despair[1:38]
36.theater of a witch[0:46]
37.we're here for you[2:23]
38.take your hands[1:46]
39.wings of relief[2:01]
40.I was waiting for this moment[1:47]
41.her new wings[2:48]
42.solve the riddle[1:38]
43.I think this world is precious[1:52]
44.happy ending[0:45]
45.not yet[1:08]
 
OMG that its very big setlist! and very early one too! thnk you elcazador!! :sohappy:

I can almost guess where every track was used :dote:
 
I'm pretty sure mada dame yo is the Asuka song, but why is it so short? :wai:
 
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