Waiting for progressive, Kalafina

grunty said:
Re:



And once again, after I'm starting to believe in their LIVE abilities again (after that damn Hokuto no Ken live) you people link ear cancer like this...

Wakana is okay, but the rest is just horrible, horrible, horrible ear cancer. What Hikaru and Keiko are doing on the bridge... I'm not gonna even think up excuses for this. Not better than aya. :omgwtf:

And since I can never see them live in person, I guess I just won't ever believe in their live abilities again. I am now officialy depressed. :uh..:
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Thanks to Kirito mentioning about Kalafina @ anipara ongakukan, I (who have nothing to do) search about that in this forum and wow. grunty praised Wakana. for once (and maybe the only time). Yeah Hikaru's earcancer, Keiko is listenable, Wakana is okay. Same for Lacrimosa - though Hikaru in Lacrimosa is way better than progressive. progressive is one of their harder songs I think, with all those key and note changes in such a fast tempo so I should let it pass for once. I think this is the live that made me really hate Hikaru for awhile, although now she's in my top 3 utahimes alongside Keiko and Yuriko.

on other notes, Kajiura should make another group for singing Kajiurago in her compositions containing Hanae, Yuriko, and Keiko.
 
Eh. I praised her a fuckton before they started getting TV apperances and I realized how bad she is. :P
 
But this is an unedited live performance and you praised her here, so I actually mean it's the only time you praised her in an unedited live. Forgive me for my lack of coherency/clarity on my previous post. :XD: Or maybe this is her first TV appearance you watched and after that she just did worse than this (I think that's the case lol) ? Not that I'm trying to say anything, tho. Wakana does sound bad when you say she sounds bad.
 
Nah, it was probably some transition period where I was still in pseudo-denial (as evidenced by the depressed line). It should be mostly pure-hate afterwards. :)
 
Ah, I see. On other notes, I've always been wanting to ask you a question. Do you watch their (Kalafina girls) recent TV performances? I think Wakana sounds better in some of their recent lives, but then on some she sounds bad again. The problem I have with Wakana's voice nowadays is when she hit the right notes I don't like her voice texture but when she fails on hitting those notes and/or falls off key I actually like her voice texture (their heavenly blue live, for example). Hikaru did so as well but Hikaru isn't bad as often as Wakana, though I somehow don't really like her voice texture and singing technique in some of their recent performances, since it lost its clarity and piercing-quality that Kajiura uses to describe Hikaru's voice.
 
Nope, I don't really follow the girls lives anymore. Having said that I did watch heavenly blue nico live (only HB, it popped up in my youtube suggestions) and Wakana sure sucked. :)
 
:XD: I think that would be for the best since you'd surely laugh at Wakana if you watch the whole performance. Thanks for spending your time answering my questions!
 
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I no longer harbor any emotions towards Wakana. When she sucks, she sucks. Same for Kaori and Hikaru. I do still have high expectations for Yuriko and Keiko.

Around Red Moon I was being an emotional loudmouth cause of the SHOKKU realizing how I've been mislead by studio h4cks and seeing other people still BELIEVing even after all those live failures. :P It was just frustrating.
 
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Okay then. But those arguments and debates in Red Moon Album thread is really interesting and 'lively'. It's really funny, especially after "WakanaCan'tSing" join the conversation. I used to be a firm believer or the girls have no flaws but back then I never really paid attention on their singing because I'm too mesmerized by their beauty in live performances lol, plus now I join my church choir and I try to play keyboard again so my notes perception is slightly better, and yeah I was really disappointed by their flaws but what can I say, I do enjoy their studio releases and/or when their live performance is good enough :XD:

I used to have problems with Wakana-biased fans on Wakana facebook fanpage because some of them can't accept the fact that she does suck sometimes on their unedited live performances when I was only pointing the obvious. I got too annoyed by them so I quit the fanpage :XD:
 
I never consider it fair when someone has an off-day and that's apparently enough to declare them incompetent. Unless you're a fan of Vocaloid or something (which is cool in its own way...) instead of human beings singing, you're going to have to accept that they're not going to meet your personal standard 100% of the time. That's not aimed at any one individual, but when you read the same criticisms parroted over and over as I have, it gets a bit old.*

*I'll also say that I've had a lousy week so my nerves are a bit frayed atm. *shrugs*
 
The problem with that is that they've had more than just one or two off-days, and it's always mostly Wakana, and sometimes Hikaru.
I know singing is not easy, and some of their songs can be hard, but the three of them are trained vocalists and, supposedly, still continue to receive training. They use ear-monitors, and have been giving live performances for over years now. There is really no excuse.
 
*sigh* maybe it's due to nerves and the knowledge that everything they do is put under the microscope and judged by people? To pre-empt accusations of me being a blind fan WHO CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, I do try to take a step back and remind myself that they're *people* and, if I was having a rough time at work in the public eye, I'd wouldn't want to have my efforts picked apart and berated either.

Sorry if that sounds harsh/sarcastic, but there could be perfectly good reasons for what some listeners will deem to be a substandard performance. As in, they could be tired or ill, which is hardly their fault.
 
I'm alright when I hear their bad performance when I looked at their schedule and know that they could be tired, but sometimes the bad performance comes when they're not really busy with release promotions etc. The problem is that, just like what Kowz has said, they still continue receive training (supposedly) and most of the bootlegs and/or unedited live performances have the girls failed on singing lives, mostly Hikaru and Wakana. The only times I'm not satisfied with Keiko's performance is on AFA Malaysia (but that could be the technical problems because I read some reviews that say the sound system is not satisfying, because they have to change the mixing for different artists after each other. Plus my own experience attending AFA Indonesia where they practically had us waiting for almost 30 minutes just to get their sound system ready for their performance, maybe learning from past experience. Or maybe she was just bad on AFA MY lol. Thankfully, the result is satisfying - and the girls are fabulous throughout the concert, especially Keiko because I paid attention to Keiko's singing more) but after that Keiko almost always performed beautifully and only fail again on delivering the final Kajiurago in Red Moon on their ACEN concert. At least she only failed on that song, though. Wakana and Hikaru, on the other hand... It gave me quite a shock because as it stated in their interviews, Keiko is the last one who took interest in singing while Wakana and Hikaru has received training since they're kids. It would be alright if they only fail 2 times out of 20 performances (as in Keiko's case), but Wakana and Hikaru still fail around 10 out of 20 performances. Sometimes even their edited performances aren't really satisfying.

I only couldn't be bothered by Kaori anymore because from live 9 Japanese songs special concert because her singing technique was just all over the place and doesn't seem like a singer who has received professional training (as grunty said on his comment about live #9. I think this is the reason why I adore grunty :XD:) and it really annoyed me just to hear it lol.
 
I dunno...it's just, every time I see that sort of reaction, I wonder whether fans are starting to lose sight of the difference between 'constructive criticism' and ungrateful whining. This really isn't a dig at anyone in particular, but those sorts of complaints carry an insinuation that the performers are somehow lazy or not trying hard enough. Which is easy for us to say, but then we don't have a clue about the underlying reasons. There's something about the 'no excuses' attitude that rubs me up the wrong way, and I'm not going to apologise if that offends anyone. It's *human beings* we're talking about here; not machines. Being a professional does demand a certain level of proficiency and consistency, but sometimes the fans start making standards of their own and basing their criticisms on those instead. A 'put them on a pedestal to knock them down' situation, which doesn't sit right with me at all.

I'm sure we've all been in a situation where something goes wrong, despite your best efforts. To have those best efforts declared inadequate by someone who doesn't know *why* things went wrong, is cruel and unfair. I don't see why this situation is any different. As for Grunty's comments, I'm guessing the 'Wakana can't sing lol' is intended to be a running joke, but even good jokes stop being funny eventually. I wasn't offended or anything; I just find it mildly irritating when it's repeated over and over.
 
Sorry, Martin. Don't give me that crap. I'm not Wakana's co-worker, her vocal coach or her IRL friend. Who the fuck am I to give her any "constructive criticism"? I'm just a random idiot on the interwebs - what kind of "constructive criticism" can I even give? You're expecting me to be UNDERSTANDING when (like Kowz and ritardando said) she always seems to be having that "bad day"? Please... Thankfully, you need not worry about me since (like I said before) I no longer have any expectations for her abilities so I'm not passionate about voicing my disappointments.

Also me being the one always saying it (in the past at least) may be a joke but the actual statement is not. Wakana can't sing, lol.
 
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Wakana's voice has been really discussed extensively and I am with grunty.

Some people are fans of Wakana and when they see that someone says she can't sing, it gets to them. Still, when she can't sing, someone has to say that. Everything said are based on opinions. There is no reason to point at someone, say that you liked her voice in this song and you disagree.
 
It's sad to see how someone who's rude and tactless to other people is so quick to resort to swearing and the caps lock button when their own views are called into question. If I'm out of line, or misunderstood what was said (things like sarcasm often come across badly in written English, after all), the moderators are welcome to talk to me about it.

@wat11 your're right: there's absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing, or 'agreeing to disagree'. I've heard them perform live on several occasions and they all sounded fine to me. But then, some people on both sides are bound get all obnoxious about it. I'm not angry about the reply above, or taking it personally; grunty is like this with pretty much everyone from what I've seen during my time here, and there are plenty of other people on this forum who I can have a meaningful and grown-up conversation with instead...whether I agree with their opinions or not!
 
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Ai ya ya what has happened?! This topic has always been a sensitive one, and one I am not going to escalate . But my opinions on this are follows (if anyone is interested lol)

1) "no excuse attitude" Kalafina is an official band, and we as fans buy DVDs, CD's , tickets to lives , or spend up to £300 for a 2 night stay in Paris - alot of money for a student like myself. Therefore I believe we do have to apply this attitude to a certain extent. Kalafina and SME are making huge financial and musical profits from their popularity, so as courtesy they can at least on their part not fail us the fans, whether this is by vocals, autograph sessions etc. Of course, they are human and yes there can be a few bad concerts or a bad period such as Wakana's 2012-2013 voice ...metamorphosis (I remember participating with a few other members of cpm in writing a letter to Miss Yuki , concerned over Wakana's voice- anyone remember it? ;P) Also I'm sure the girls put pressure on themselves! They are always trying something new and they don't want to fail us! Japanese have a lot of honour no? But in summary, I do want their studio recordings to correlate with their live recordings or sound even better!


2)Agreed. Wakana's voice has been discussed extensively over the years, esp in CPM. I did get a few laughs from past discussions. Imo her voice correlates to the number of advertising campaigns that SME do.
Her voice during the Best Promotions= not so great.
Paris Concert where they had at least a week to rest/prepare/play the bongos?! = Wakana sounded pre-2012. Even the fan recordings of Paris are astonishingly good! And no they don't put justice to that concert because it was epic. All three of them.

I've always believed that if you're a true fan of someone/thing, then you must be able to discuss their strengths and weaknesses openly. The rabid fans ...that's puppy love. By openly discussing the pros and cons it shows you care. You care when you hear a bad concert, because you want them to do better! As long as it's done healthily and not excessively on either side. There is no such thing as perfection. Because if you say something is perfect , you draw a line. Something can always be better. Always.


PeachPitt321 out and hope I didn't insult/escalate or do anything bad! If anything, I'm in a good mood because I finally got the LE Seventh Heaven DVD , ergo my Kalafina LE Album collection is complete!
 
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Martin said:
It's sad to see how someone who's rude and tactless to other people is so quick to resort to swearing and the caps lock button when their own views are called into question. If I'm out of line, or misunderstood what was said (things like sarcasm often come across badly in written English, after all), the moderators are welcome to talk to me about it.
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Martin said:
There's something about the 'no excuses' attitude that rubs me up the wrong way, and I'm not going to apologise if that offends anyone. It's *human beings* we're talking about here; not machines. (...) To have those best efforts declared inadequate by someone who doesn't know *why* things went wrong, is cruel and unfair.
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The way you're using asterisks as an emphasis *is* the same as italics, caps and bold so you can act all "adult" you want, while I'm gonna swear as much as I want.
 
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