Dialogue interview
Yuki Kajiura x Tsuyoshi Yanagawa
Mr. Yanagawa directed the TV dramas ``The Man Who Named the Eternal Nipper Hokkaido: Takeshi Matsuura~'' and ``Kaze Yo Arashiyo,'' whose
soundtracks are included in this soundtrack collection. Before that, the two of you appeared together in the 2014 morning drama called "Hanako and Ann."
Kajiura: When I first heard about ``Hanako and Anne,'' I was surprised. When I think of morning dramas, I get the impression that they are
very sunny dramas. I thought to myself, ``Is it okay for me to write the music for such a successful drama?'' and I was extremely
happy.I remember thinking to myself, ``I have to do my best at this.'' However, first of all, the title is ``Hanako and Anne'' and
the theme is ``Anne of Green Gables.'' I really loved ``Anne of Green Gables'' when I was a child, so I'm honored to have this story. I thought
so, and I also thought it was a work that was very easy to get into.
Yanagawa: You've said that from the beginning.
Kajiura: When I first met Ms. Yanagawa, she told me that I had graduated from Tsuda College, and she said to me, ``I thought you might be familiar with the somewhat arrogant atmosphere of girls who study English at women's colleges.'' I'm glad I was able to have it.
Yanagawa: We wanted the worldview of ``Anne of Green Gables'' and ``Hanako and Anne'' to overlap in some way, so we definitely wanted
music that linked to ``Anne of Green Gables.'' That's what I was thinking.
Kajiura: At first, I thought it would be wrong to make it too Western-style, but when I first talked to him, he said,
``No, I'd rather you take it that way.'' I was very relieved by that, and I remember it being very easy to do.
Yanagawa: Also, it was decided at an early stage that Akihiro Miwa would narrate that drama, and we wanted the three
of them to express their opinions through the visuals, Miwa's narration, and Kajiura's music. It was. I wanted those
three elements to fight and create a synergistic effect, so I really wanted to see the kind of strength that your
music has.
This leads to ``Takeshiro Matsuura, the man who named Eternal Nipper Hokkaido,'' which includes the accompaniment in this soundtrack.
So, first of all, could you tell us about the story of how that subject will be adapted into a drama?
Yanagawa: 2019 was the 150th year since Hokkaido was named. So Sapporo, Hokkaido, came up with a plan because they wanted to
do a drama to commemorate the 150th anniversary. Although that drama was not based on an original work and was written
by Shizuka Oishi, I felt that the difficult subject of the Ainu was well summarized.
Kajiura: When I heard about it, I just thought it looked really interesting. I had no idea who the main character, Takeshiro Matsuura, was, so it was interesting to have him show me the books and other materials, and at the same time, it was interesting to see him show me the books and other materials, and at the same time, I also learned that he was a real person, including ``Kaze yo Arashiyo.'' I also felt the wonder and difficulty of making a drama about someone who has done so. If you put on too much exaggerated music, your life will be different. I don't want to make music that's so emotional that people end up crying tears of emotion. I don't think so. What the person did, what he wanted, and what he tried to do but couldn't achieve due to the times. I felt like I had to leave this behind for people who see the face of things like that. Also, the drama was made with this in mind. I knew there was something going on, so I thought it wasn't enough just to make people cry, including the music. in movies and animation. If there's a scene where a hero dies, the slightly exaggerated music is meant to heighten the emotion of ``I feel like he's gone,'' but if you overdo that, there's a risk that it will end up feeling shallow. The screenplay for ``Eternal Japan: The Man Who Named Hokkaido, Takeshiro Matsuura'' was well thought out, and it wasn't a give and-take. I don't think everyone gets to do everything they want in their limited lives, and not everything goes as planned. However, sometimes things go the way you want them to. In a sense. I think human life is such a half-baked thing, so it can't be boiled down or divided into parts. I really felt that that half-heartedness was the reality.
Yanagawa: It is true that a man named Takeshiro Matsuura also named Hokkaido, but he was eventually removed by the new Meiji government.
But it's true. As a creator, I think Ura-san also receives offers like, ``Please make this part more exciting,'' or ``Please make
me cry as much as I want in this part,'' but we don't make dramas like that. As I listened to what you just said, I thought that
Naru-san understands me very well, and that's probably why I want to ask her to help me again and again (lol).
The music for ``The Man Who Named Eternal Nipper Hokkaido, Takeshiro Matsuura~'' was created by watching the actual footage and matching
it with it.
Kajiura: Well, not all of it, but I had to make a large percentage of each scene to match the pictures (videos), and I remember asking for the scene
where the scenery opens up, saying, ``If possible, I'd like to make it to match the picture.'' there is.
Yanagawa: A little while ago, I listened to the music of ``Eternal Nirepa: The Man Who Named Hokkaido, Takeshiro Matsuura'', and once again
I thought that the recording was very good. When you listen to it, you can almost tell the cut in each song. I can't help but think of ``this
is what will happen here''.
Kajiura: After all, when I listen to it, I am reminded of the video. I remember every single thing like, ``Run up the hill here and the next bar will
open up the view!'' (laughs)
Yanagawa: There are two scenes that I like: the sequence in which the majestic music from the previous episodes calms down a little at the timing when Takeshiro Matsuura, played by Jun Matsumoto, climbs the hill and shouts “Birika!”; and the scene in which Lise, played by Kyoko Fukada, calms down a bit. However, after she reunites with Takeshiro Matsuura and he leaves, she suddenly stops moving while weaving, thinks about it, and then takes the kimono she had woven to Takeshiro.
Kajiura: It's about to start running.
Yanagawa: I think that moving music is truly wonderful. After all, when I listen to it, a lot of pictures come to mind.
Kajiura: In that sense, it's fun to make everything together. It's really fun to look at the picture and think about things like leaving just the
rhythm here and then adding the melody from the close-up of the face, so I was grinning to myself as I worked on it. I did
(lol). However, music can also be extremely dangerous, as it can affect the images, for better or for worse. That's why we
sometimes receive instructions such as, ``It's okay to keep the sound silent here.'' It is directed by where you make the sound silent.
Sometimes you can convey the intentions of the person who is creating the music, and sometimes it's better to convey the message without music, and sometimes adding music can actually make the emotion weaker. So, when I listen to those instructions, I can see the director's intention of how they want the whole performance to be, and the task of adding music that doesn't betray that direction is a different kind of rewarding experience than my usual method.
Yanagawa: I feel that Yanagawa's music has a very comfortable restraint.
Kajiura: When I was young, I was afraid to hold back. I was afraid of being told, ``I can't use music that doesn't get this exciting,'' so I had
the idea that I had to add as much music as I could to the whole thing, but as I worked on several pieces, "I've started to think
about how to be more restrained in this area. Even then, I've been too restrained and people have told me, ``Please make this
part more exciting,'' so after I've made it, I've said, ``I was totally hooked.'' I would be very happy if you could do that.
Yanagawa: Is that something that comes naturally to you?
Kajiura: I don't really understand it myself, but especially when it comes to a single video work like this, I think it's
important to see how I want to see it, and ultimately I want to be the viewer alone. When I watch this drama as a viewer, I
think, ``What kind of music should be played here to best convey the director's intentions?'' Or, what kind of music
would you like to hear or what kind of music would you not like to be played? Ultimately, I think the basic question
is what would happen if I were the viewer. I want to be rolled in the palm of my hand, and even when I'm reading a
book, if I'm told to cry, I cry. I like the idea of getting angry when someone tells me to do it (lol), and it's the same with
dramas and anime. When I create a movie, I look at the script and the footage and try to add the music exactly as I was
inspired by it.
Yanagawa: means that you place great importance on your first impression when you read the script.
Kajiura: That's a big deal. However, at first I read while keeping in mind the overall flow, but as I continue to compose music,
I ended up getting into that scene. If you do that, the tension will inevitably rise more than necessary. I listen back to it later and adjust
it to the overall flow, but I can see things most objectively right after I wake up in the morning, so I often listen back to what I
made the day before first thing in the morning. But at night, I find myself unconsciously getting excited again.
Yanagawa: I can think calmest when I'm taking a bath, and I often come up with many ideas while I'm taking a bath.
Kajiura: I totally understand (lol). Generally speaking, soundtracks have a large number of songs, but once you've finished writing
one song, you have to forget that song before you can move on to the next one. There are several methods to help you forget.
The best thing to do is sleep, but I don't have time for that. Eating rice is good, but it takes a lot of time to eat, and to top it off, eating
makes me sleepy (lol). When you think about it, bathing is the best way to encourage children. I fill up the bathtub with
hot water, and when I've finished writing the song, I take a quick bath. When I do that, a lot of things change in my head. It
only takes about 30 seconds, but I think it's the quickest way to clear your head.
Yanagawa: When I was relistening to the music for ``The Man Who Named Mizuon's Nipper Hokkaido, Takeshiro Matsuura~'', I noticed that there were two notable songs by Rise, played by Kyoko Fukada, and at a certain stage they became Takeshiro's theme song. It's combined with. That moment perfectly coincides with the moment when Lise dies and Takeshiro inherits Lise's thoughts, and the combined theme is linked to the final story, and as I listened to it again, I thought it was a new story. Ta.
Kajiura: I think there were many things that Takeshiro Ura left behind in his heart at the end. When I look back on
Takeshiro, including his time at Lycée, I think we can't ignore that.
Yanagawa: Even so, there is a sense in which the viewer is entrusted with the hope of overcoming that wall in the end, and I really
felt that way in Kajiura-san's music.
Kajiura: At that stage of the drama, we, future generations, did not know that he would never be able to go to Hokkaido in his life.
I know that his dream didn't come true after that, but I think he thought, ``There's still a long way to go...'' so in that sense, I want
it to be something that looks toward the future. That's what I thought.
Yanagawa: Kajiura's music may have the feeling of daring to descend into the times. When I make videos, I also believe that I shouldn't
shoot based on today's values, and this is the case with war dramas and period dramas, but I try to keep in mind that ``the camera is
not there, but the place of the time.'' If you don't have it, you may make a mistake. I thought they were the same in that respect.
Kajiura: Light oil, right? It wouldn't be good if it became "God's eyes". When we look at people from the past, we know their lives, so we tend
to look at them from the ``eyes of God''.However, although it depends on a case-by-case basis, There are a lot of things that you
shouldn't create from your own perspective.
Yanagawa: Just using that as an example made it worth coming today (lol).
・``Kazeyo Arashio'', which was broadcast in 2022, is also a drama depicting the life of Itono, who actually existed during the Taisho era.
Kajiura: That music bothered me a lot. I received a few hints beforehand, like ``I wanted it to have a bit of a modern jazz feel,'' but I think
I would have struggled even more if I hadn't received those hints.
Yanagawa: During the meeting, I had the impression that Mr. Kajiura had already completed the project, and today I wanted to ask
him why he thought so.
Kajiura: I wanted it to sound a little like modern music. I'm not what you would call a modern girl, but I feel like there was a sense of idleness among the progressive women of the time, and I'm sure those who were marginalized in the times were asserting their rights. If you try to do that, I
think most of the paths you explore will inevitably end in vain. Sometimes, after blindly choosing from all directions, one gear finally clicks,
and sometimes it ends up not fitting. Somehow it has become too early, or it has become exclusive, or on the contrary, it has become the same.
Even men in the same position as me get a lot of backlash, and I think that's the same thing in every era, but if things don't move forward, nothing will happen. I wanted to give it to you. To be honest, I don't think everyone who watches that drama will be able to empathize with Noeda. Therefore, I think that if we only put on music that depicts Noe as ``justice,'' people's hearts will be lost, and we will feel that she is rushing through life and running around in vain. I thought that if I could show Noe in music, I would be able to follow Noe as a human being, rather than a hero,
so I tried incorporating some strange rhythms and slightly strange scales.
Yanagawa: The music that left an impression on me was Rie Akagi's flute performance of Noeda's theme song, which sounded like a cry from her heart. Also, when my husband's Tsuji tone said something strange, the lyrics had a feeling of being in another world, and that was also very impressive.
Kajiura: Even Noe doesn't understand that (lol).As for Noe's theme, when I read the original, I was really impressed by the scene
where Noe was swimming, I wanted the theme to be something like the beauty of lying on your back and looking up at the
sky. However, when I first met her, I thought, ``That's the kind of feeling I want to make her feel.'' I feel like I developed
something like this, so I think there was a certain amount of direction that led to the way it turned out. I felt a little relieved,
thinking, ``Ah, it's okay to feel that way.''
Yanagawa: It's true that Nogaku has been praised for his work, but depending on how you look at it, he stands out to the point that both women and men would be turned off by it, and if you make everything about Noeda, you'll probably end up thinking, "Who is this person?" That's right.
Kajiura: She's still young and doesn't have a very wide perspective, so it's natural for her to become more and more immersed in a narrow world, and everything is different from today's era where you can touch the thoughts of people all over the world in seconds through social media. That's why.
Yanagawa: On the other hand, Sakae Osugi may be aiming for a revolution, but he also has problems with his relationships with women, and that work is full of difficult characters like that.
Kajiura: In created stories, people who aim for revolution are always clean and righteous, or they are completely cast as villains, but in the real world, they do great things. There are quite a few people who are slovenly with women, or who are dirty with money. I think figuring out how to depict that can be both interesting and extremely difficult.
It seems that ``Kazeyo Arashio'' will be made into a movie in 2024.
Yanagawa: That's right. We're planning to edit the drama version, have Mr. Kimura compose new music, and then release it in theaters.
Kajiura: I'm really looking forward to it too. I think ``Kazeyo Arashiyo'' is more of a work suited for theaters.
・I heard that Kajiura-san wrote a new ending theme.
Kajiura: It looks like oil.
Yanagawa: First of all, I would like to say to Mr. Kajiura that, keeping in mind that the newly created ending song will be played at the
end, I am thinking of reducing the amount of music inside. So, I wanted that ending song to stand out even more.
Kajiura: Thank you.
Yanagawa: When that song plays, I want the audience to feel a kind of sense of fulfillment and to say, ``Ah, I'm done watching
it,'' and to feel a life full of skill. So I tried to reduce the amount of music in the movie a little, and personally I think it made
it even better.
Kajiura: Originally, since it was a movie, we thought it would be better to have a song at the end, so we decided to make it.
That's right.
Yanagawa: Since then, we had a remote meeting once.
Kajiura: At that point, I had decided on the number of minutes, so I thought about how to create it, and I thought it would be best to use the main
theme as a song.
Yanagawa: At that time, Kajiura-san felt that the project was already complete.
Kajiura: However, the main theme doesn't really have a melody that's suitable for singing, or rather it's a bit monotonous, so I don't feel like the tension builds up properly. It shouldn't feel so strange, but actually, the main theme is not sung in the first ending song. In the first verse, the flute plays the main theme melody, and then the songs do something completely different, as if they were playing over each other, and in the second verse, I used the trick of having the songs play the melody again.
Yanagawa: I didn't notice that at all.
Kajiura: I don't think you'll notice unless you tell me, but if you listen closely, you'll realize that I'm doing something completely different.
Yanagawa: How did you choose the river lyrics?
Kajiura: The lyrics were very difficult to write, I thought it would be better not to write them too specifically, and it was a little different
to represent Noe's feelings. I felt that we shouldn't express her regrets and various thoughts, so I tried to give her a listening
perspective, although it wouldn't be a complete story. She's a very strong-willed person, so if I tried to write about her
feelings, it would be misleading, and I felt like we were going a little too far in imagining her feelings. So, although I didn't want
to write about Noe's feelings, I thought it would be different to write from a complete perspective, so in between, I wrote:
It feels like it was written.
Yanagawa: The first time I heard the CD that included Ura-san's song, I was encouraged by it and cried as I listened to it, as I was going
through a lot of difficult times personally. It's not about whether he's good or bad, but because he writes songs based on what he
likes, I think there's something about him that really appeals to my emotions.
Kajiura: I'm really bad at singing, so this is just a temporary song, but I once asked someone else to sing for me because I was so bad at
singing. However, if I do that, I may not be able to convey my intentions well to the singer who provides the music, so no matter
how bad I am at singing, my intention (I want them to sing this way) will be better conveyed if I sing it myself. In order to convey the
image as accurately as possible, I try to sing a temporary song myself and give it to them, even though it's really embarrassing.
Yanagawa: Because it's Yanagawa, perhaps his image was conveyed directly this time as well.
This ending theme was actually sung by KOKIA.
Kajiura: I had worked with KOKIA once before he debuted as KOKIA, and I had also approached him after that, but at that time KOKIA was
involved in his own activities. I was busy and the timing just wasn't right. However, this year, I had the opportunity to be invited to
KOKIA's 25th anniversary concert, and I thought that KOKIA's voice was a great fit for this work, so I approached them at this timing and
they gladly accepted. It was a wish and it came true. Since this is Noeda's song, I didn't imagine the chorus to be layered, but when I
thought about what kind of voice it would be like to sing a completely solo song with the main melody as the main melody, I realized
that I didn't have a voice that was too loud or just pure "beauty." I think it's different, I like a voice that sounds more human and has
more energy. I was thinking that if it was KOKIA, it would have a sense of energy, and the music would be beautiful, and in some
way, it's something that only KOKIA could do...it's a truly beautiful voice. However, it doesn't just fade away beautifully; it also leaves a
lasting impression on your skin. I thought that the feel was perfect. On the other hand, since I had such a specific image in mind, I was
wondering what I would do if someone told me that it wasn't possible, but I'm glad that I was able to sing it without incident (lol).
--The ending theme has been included on this CD ahead of the movie's release.
Kajiura: I would be happy if everyone listened to the CD and then went to see the movie.
Yanagawa: Recently, mini-theater movies and works that are by no means blockbusters have become hits, so I'm hoping that this movie, which will be released in February, can follow that trend.
I think this soundtrack collection will probably be listened to by people who have never seen each work.
Yanagawa: If that's the case, we would be happy from our standpoint.
Kajiura: On the other hand, it might be interesting to imagine the work from the music. Whether it's ``Eternal Nishiba ~Takeshiro Matsuura, the Man Who Named Hokkaido~'' or other works, most of the songs were created to go with the pictures. As the person who created it, I can imagine
a picture just by listening to the music, but for those who haven't seen the work, I would like to ask them to imagine their favorite images,
or to imagine a completely unrelated story. It might be interesting to listen to it while doing so. There is no rule that says ``listen this way,'' so
I would be happy if everyone could listen to it whenever and however they like.
