LianaIlia36
I have reached Yuki nirvana
Does anyone know what it means when it says RUSH violin? It says it on the track of Sayonara Solitaire by Saeko Chiba in the track listing. Just curious as to why that is.
sarasara
I eat sleep and breathe Yuki
There's this blog I follow in where this vocal instructor analyzes and writes very in-depth, technical, and brutally honest analyses of Kpop vocalists singing technique. I agree with practically everything he posts, and he is actually a trained vocal instructor so he knows his stuff when it comes to singing.
I was just browsing the blog today though, and I found that someone actually asked him about Keiko, and this is what he had to say. (Idk how to link to the specific comment, but just scroll down long enough and you'll find it. The person asking linked a performance of Houseki, so you'll see the thumbnail.)
I find what he said interesting though, as while I know that Kalafina isn't really the most technically skilled group anymore (which is partially why I've started to like other groups where the vocalists are actually consistently good and don't have nearly as many vocal issues as Kalafina), I've always considered Keiko to be the strongest vocalist by far.
Though, then again, that is a really old performance of Houseki, so maybe he'd think differently once he heard her today, but still. :P
I don't doubt what he said, as I've noticed Keiko has been very throaty in the past, but she does have some performances where, imo, she supports and sounds very good, even though I've developed such a critical ear for singing and technique. (It's really hard for me to like singers/groups where the vocalists don't have at least some semblance of vocal technique, it sticks out super badly to me. All my favorite groups have vocalists that range from Proficient to Great on this chart. It's also why I don't like BTS, despite how popular they are. All of their vocalists really can't sing (they're all ranked as weak vocalists lol), and I can't enjoy their songs because of it.)
This whole topic is interesting to me though, as I'm really interested in vocal techinique, and I'm really curious as to what he would make of Kalafina if he actually sat down and made an in depth analysis in the same vein of his Kpop ones. (Here's one as an example, see how in depth and detailed it is?)
But Ik that'll never happen, unfortunately D:
But lol, if he thought Keiko was bad, I'm scared to think what he'll think of Wakana and Hikaru...
I was just browsing the blog today though, and I found that someone actually asked him about Keiko, and this is what he had to say. (Idk how to link to the specific comment, but just scroll down long enough and you'll find it. The person asking linked a performance of Houseki, so you'll see the thumbnail.)
I find what he said interesting though, as while I know that Kalafina isn't really the most technically skilled group anymore (which is partially why I've started to like other groups where the vocalists are actually consistently good and don't have nearly as many vocal issues as Kalafina), I've always considered Keiko to be the strongest vocalist by far.
Though, then again, that is a really old performance of Houseki, so maybe he'd think differently once he heard her today, but still. :P
I don't doubt what he said, as I've noticed Keiko has been very throaty in the past, but she does have some performances where, imo, she supports and sounds very good, even though I've developed such a critical ear for singing and technique. (It's really hard for me to like singers/groups where the vocalists don't have at least some semblance of vocal technique, it sticks out super badly to me. All my favorite groups have vocalists that range from Proficient to Great on this chart. It's also why I don't like BTS, despite how popular they are. All of their vocalists really can't sing (they're all ranked as weak vocalists lol), and I can't enjoy their songs because of it.)
This whole topic is interesting to me though, as I'm really interested in vocal techinique, and I'm really curious as to what he would make of Kalafina if he actually sat down and made an in depth analysis in the same vein of his Kpop ones. (Here's one as an example, see how in depth and detailed it is?)
But Ik that'll never happen, unfortunately D:
But lol, if he thought Keiko was bad, I'm scared to think what he'll think of Wakana and Hikaru...
Westkana
HA! I live in her CLOSET!
^That's actually really interesting... I don't listen to Kpop (as I have probably said to you before XD) but I like analyzing vocal technique despite not being a vocalist myself 
(completely untrained and can only breifly hit an E4 without going into falsetto if lucky). I actually agree with what he said about Keiko, as in Houseki (whether it's the original or vol 4 live) she does sound a bit weak. Plus that song (along with synchronicity and to an extent Alleluia) are a bit high in her range, and since she specializes in lower range-not her higher range may not be as developed as her lower range.
And yeah I don't think he'll give the best review about (current day) Hikaru... probably say she's singing way too much in the back of her throat or something. Though AE-era Hikaru would be interesting to see. Wakana, though, I'm not sure. She can be pretty inconsistent in her delivery
(completely untrained and can only breifly hit an E4 without going into falsetto if lucky). I actually agree with what he said about Keiko, as in Houseki (whether it's the original or vol 4 live) she does sound a bit weak. Plus that song (along with synchronicity and to an extent Alleluia) are a bit high in her range, and since she specializes in lower range-not her higher range may not be as developed as her lower range.And yeah I don't think he'll give the best review about (current day) Hikaru... probably say she's singing way too much in the back of her throat or something. Though AE-era Hikaru would be interesting to see. Wakana, though, I'm not sure. She can be pretty inconsistent in her delivery
sarasara
I eat sleep and breathe Yuki
^Completely agree, that's why I've never really loved Houseki as a song, Keiko just seems to struggle with it and she doesn't really sing it comfortably. If I was the person who was asking, I would've linked a different song but oh well xD
Though, since you like analyizing vocal technique too, I really recommend looking into his blog some more (along with his Youtube channel). Even if you're not into Kpop, he makes some really good videos just talking about singing in general, like how to identify strain, resonance, nasality, and tongue tension, how to support, how to identify support, how to sing high notes properly, etc.
This in particular is a really good video, though I partially regret watching it because it made me notice the straining in Wakana and Hikaru so much more clearly than I did before...
This is another good video clearly showing the difference between vocal timbre and technique, the difference is like night and day.
Another really cool thing about that blog is that if you comment with links to your own singing and ask for advice (the more specific the better), he will almost always respond with some really good and detailed feedback and advice.
The nice thing about being into Kpop is that there is a lot more resources available for this sort of thing, so you can learn a lot more than if you were just trying to study on your own.
Offtopic rant I had to get off my chest but:
Kpop fans tend to get a bad rep for being obnoxious and annoying, which is true to an extent, but I try my hardest to break that stereotype lol because, as a pianist and violinist for 10+ years, I like to think I know my stuff when it comes to music and I genuinely think Kpop has some very good music out there (especially when it comes to cool harmonies, countermelodies, good vocalists, etc.), you just have to be actively looking for it.
That's why I wrote a 56 page paper geared towards newcomers about SHINee LOL (I'm in the midst of writing another one about EXO too, and it's 29 pages so far...), I needed to vent and talk about the music in a more technical and analytic way instead of the annoying way tumblr people go about it but whatever. If only people like the people on this forum existed everywhere
/end rant
Though, since you like analyizing vocal technique too, I really recommend looking into his blog some more (along with his Youtube channel). Even if you're not into Kpop, he makes some really good videos just talking about singing in general, like how to identify strain, resonance, nasality, and tongue tension, how to support, how to identify support, how to sing high notes properly, etc.
This in particular is a really good video, though I partially regret watching it because it made me notice the straining in Wakana and Hikaru so much more clearly than I did before...
This is another good video clearly showing the difference between vocal timbre and technique, the difference is like night and day.
Another really cool thing about that blog is that if you comment with links to your own singing and ask for advice (the more specific the better), he will almost always respond with some really good and detailed feedback and advice.
The nice thing about being into Kpop is that there is a lot more resources available for this sort of thing, so you can learn a lot more than if you were just trying to study on your own.
Offtopic rant I had to get off my chest but:
That's why I wrote a 56 page paper geared towards newcomers about SHINee LOL (I'm in the midst of writing another one about EXO too, and it's 29 pages so far...
), I needed to vent and talk about the music in a more technical and analytic way instead of the annoying way tumblr people go about it but whatever. If only people like the people on this forum existed everywhere/end rant
Westkana
HA! I live in her CLOSET!
^ Yeah, I definitely see why you regret watching the vid about strained voices, I remember how he listed a bunch of indicators of it and all of them sounded like Wakana and/or Hikaru, especially Hikaru 
. And the video about technique vs. timbre was also really interesting, I think it shows that Hikaru is firmly a "timbre" singer, and that faulty vocal technique after years of using it eventually unfortunately resulted in the strained voice we know from her today (compare this performance of seventh heaven from AE era to this performance from Budokan). It also makes me think Aimer is firmly in the "timbre" section, too, cause I've noticed she seems to squeeze out a lot of her higher notes (see this performance of Brave Shine)
I think Jpop fans have a lot of untrue stereotypes as well... pretty much anyone will call you a weeaboo if you even make a single reference to a Japanese song, and even those who are into anime will solely see you as an anime fan. Which obviously not all Jpop is anime >.<, I actually don't watch much anime compared to a lot of people I know
. And the video about technique vs. timbre was also really interesting, I think it shows that Hikaru is firmly a "timbre" singer, and that faulty vocal technique after years of using it eventually unfortunately resulted in the strained voice we know from her today (compare this performance of seventh heaven from AE era to this performance from Budokan). It also makes me think Aimer is firmly in the "timbre" section, too, cause I've noticed she seems to squeeze out a lot of her higher notes (see this performance of Brave Shine)
R
ritardando
Guest
@sarasara @Westkana I remember seeing a person asking about Keiko on that site (the admin hasn't answered by that time) and tbh as a Kalafina fan i'm embarrassed of how her vocal assessment would go because Kalafina (and most Jpop vocalist tbh) are never technically great vocalists. I thought back then Hikaru was actually decent as she used to sing with healthy vibrato but right now she is plain bad. Most Jpop vocalists tend to prioritize vocal tone/timbre over technique. In some Kpop entertainment companies, the company at least train their vocalists to have decent technique and it's up to the vocalists to develop themselves more. As much as I don't like the way SM treat their idols, SM is the company who almost consistently produce idols with good vocal technique. YG entertainment for example, prefer uniqueness and timbre over technique as well. Kajiura herself pushes her vocalists to sing in tones that pleases her ears at the expense of proper vocal technique. Almost all Jpop singers who are considered to be Jpop top vocalists have bad to mediocre technique, like Kumi Koda, Utada Hikaru, etc. so it's not surprising that anisong singers almost all fall into technically weak area.
Talking about singing, I have the habit of emulating the voice of the original singers when I sing a song, so when I sing a Kalafina song - i.e kantankatan - I would sing with an extremely throaty voice on Hikaru's part or would constrict my voice on my jaw to produce a deeper tone on Keiko's part. Also since I mostly listen to female vocalists I completely suck at belting and at singing male vocalists' songs since most male vocalists are tenor. My voice range is actually a tenor and I can belt up to G4 at vocal range measurement at my church choir test BUT I can only mix/belt and sing properly when I sing at church since I don't actually emulate anyone's voice when I sing a church song. When I sing a popular song I'd sing with either chest, throat, falsetto, and head voice but can never use mixed voice properly. Does that even make sense or does anyone else have the same problem?
Talking about singing, I have the habit of emulating the voice of the original singers when I sing a song, so when I sing a Kalafina song - i.e kantankatan - I would sing with an extremely throaty voice on Hikaru's part or would constrict my voice on my jaw to produce a deeper tone on Keiko's part. Also since I mostly listen to female vocalists I completely suck at belting and at singing male vocalists' songs since most male vocalists are tenor. My voice range is actually a tenor and I can belt up to G4 at vocal range measurement at my church choir test BUT I can only mix/belt and sing properly when I sing at church since I don't actually emulate anyone's voice when I sing a church song. When I sing a popular song I'd sing with either chest, throat, falsetto, and head voice but can never use mixed voice properly. Does that even make sense or does anyone else have the same problem?
sarasara
I eat sleep and breathe Yuki
@Westkana
Yup, hearing those examples he did of straining sounded EXACTLY like Hikaru to me, it was so weird to hear lol
Hikaru is definetely a timbre over technique singer (all of Kalafina kinda is, for that matter), but the depressing part is that she used to have good techinque. Man, seeing those Seventh Heaven videos again made me really sad, SH is still one of my favorite Kala songs by far and the fact that we'll never hear it sung live like that again depresses me. The difference between those two videos is just...:(
Also, yes about Aimer. I used to really like her, and then hearing her lack of techinque really hit me (yeah, especially in that performance of Brave Shine) and her voice started to get on my nerves if I listened to her for too long lol. Classic case of style over substance imo
And yes to what @ritardando said about Jpop singers generally not having good technique. Idk what it is about Japan, or if they don't invest in making sure idols have good vocal instructors like Korea does (especially SM, like what ritardando said. SM is the only company that actively makes sure all of their idols can not only sing, but sing well, and that's why all of my favorite groups are under them lol) , but I honestly can't think of a single famous Japanese vocalist that has good vocal techinque.
I like Utada, but when you hear her live performances, it's obvious she's struggling. I love Maaya Sakamoto too, but same thing with her. It's sad really :/
Here's just a sample of a 'vocal battle' between SM's 3 best main male vocalists. All 3 of these singers are in my top 5 favorite Kpop vocalists of all time, so it's super hard for me to decide which one is best, but I think I'd say that for lower registers, Chen (on the right) is the best, for mixed voice/belting , it's tied between Chen (Chen can actually support a F5 like wth. This whole part too is also insanely good) and Kyuhyun (left), but for falsetto/head voice, it undoubtedly goes to Jonghyun (middle.)
As for personal preference though, I just really like the timbre to Jonghyun's and Chen's voice. All 3 are still insanely good vocalists though, and are some of the best in the entire industry so...
And here's one on girls too, for good measure.
For me, it's Luna (middle) > Wendy (right) > Taeyeon (left), though all 3 are again, really good. If only Japanese singers got the same vocal training these guys got...
And about that weeb thing, while I do agree with you, the thing is is that with anime fans, at least there are intellectual people in the fandom who are contributing analyses and stuff of value to the community. Like there are a ton of anime youtubers, podcasts, forums, etc., and the majority of people are not the stereotypical weeb, but are (mostly)normal, well spoken, articulate people.
So the thing with that is that the stereotype of anime fans all being 'weebs' is just that; a stereotype (for the most part).
But with kpop fans, the majority of kpop fans are actually 'koreaboos' lol, and that's not even an exaggeration. That Vocal analysis blog is legit the ONLY thing I could find of someone actually analyzing and talking about Kpop normally, not overacting for the camera and acting stupid and obnoxious for views like 99.99999% of every single other Kpop Youtuber out there (There was another Youtuber who I really liked that actually analyzed the music and gave good commentary on it, and he was actually a music producer so he knew his stuff too, but he got involved in some scandal and quit Youtube a year ago :/) .
And if you go to like Kpop forums, it's just full of that cringey tumblrspeak, (no one speaks in full sentences there lol) there's a ton of needless drama and fanwars, and it's just generally a toxic community to be in, unlike the majority of the anime fandom, which, while it can be cringey at times, is, for the most part, decently wellspoken. (I rather take hearing anime memes or whatever over shit like this anyday. How do people sit through countless videos of that, idek....Like, yes, Taemin has abs, does that really warrant that reaction?? How do people get any enjoyment from that? And literally EVERY single Kpop reaction video is like that too UGH)
Ritardando was literally the first person I was able to have a normal conversation about Kpop with, and I've been into Kpop on and off for a while now (5-6 years), so that really says a lot imo.
Yup, hearing those examples he did of straining sounded EXACTLY like Hikaru to me, it was so weird to hear lol
Hikaru is definetely a timbre over technique singer (all of Kalafina kinda is, for that matter), but the depressing part is that she used to have good techinque. Man, seeing those Seventh Heaven videos again made me really sad, SH is still one of my favorite Kala songs by far and the fact that we'll never hear it sung live like that again depresses me. The difference between those two videos is just...:(
Also, yes about Aimer. I used to really like her, and then hearing her lack of techinque really hit me (yeah, especially in that performance of Brave Shine) and her voice started to get on my nerves if I listened to her for too long lol. Classic case of style over substance imo
And yes to what @ritardando said about Jpop singers generally not having good technique. Idk what it is about Japan, or if they don't invest in making sure idols have good vocal instructors like Korea does (especially SM, like what ritardando said. SM is the only company that actively makes sure all of their idols can not only sing, but sing well, and that's why all of my favorite groups are under them lol) , but I honestly can't think of a single famous Japanese vocalist that has good vocal techinque.
I like Utada, but when you hear her live performances, it's obvious she's struggling. I love Maaya Sakamoto too, but same thing with her. It's sad really :/
Here's just a sample of a 'vocal battle' between SM's 3 best main male vocalists. All 3 of these singers are in my top 5 favorite Kpop vocalists of all time, so it's super hard for me to decide which one is best, but I think I'd say that for lower registers, Chen (on the right) is the best, for mixed voice/belting , it's tied between Chen (Chen can actually support a F5 like wth. This whole part too is also insanely good) and Kyuhyun (left), but for falsetto/head voice, it undoubtedly goes to Jonghyun (middle.)
As for personal preference though, I just really like the timbre to Jonghyun's and Chen's voice. All 3 are still insanely good vocalists though, and are some of the best in the entire industry so...
And here's one on girls too, for good measure.
For me, it's Luna (middle) > Wendy (right) > Taeyeon (left), though all 3 are again, really good. If only Japanese singers got the same vocal training these guys got...
And about that weeb thing, while I do agree with you, the thing is is that with anime fans, at least there are intellectual people in the fandom who are contributing analyses and stuff of value to the community. Like there are a ton of anime youtubers, podcasts, forums, etc., and the majority of people are not the stereotypical weeb, but are (mostly)normal, well spoken, articulate people.
So the thing with that is that the stereotype of anime fans all being 'weebs' is just that; a stereotype (for the most part).
But with kpop fans, the majority of kpop fans are actually 'koreaboos' lol, and that's not even an exaggeration. That Vocal analysis blog is legit the ONLY thing I could find of someone actually analyzing and talking about Kpop normally, not overacting for the camera and acting stupid and obnoxious for views like 99.99999% of every single other Kpop Youtuber out there (There was another Youtuber who I really liked that actually analyzed the music and gave good commentary on it, and he was actually a music producer so he knew his stuff too, but he got involved in some scandal and quit Youtube a year ago :/) .
And if you go to like Kpop forums, it's just full of that cringey tumblrspeak, (no one speaks in full sentences there lol) there's a ton of needless drama and fanwars, and it's just generally a toxic community to be in, unlike the majority of the anime fandom, which, while it can be cringey at times, is, for the most part, decently wellspoken. (I rather take hearing anime memes or whatever over shit like this anyday. How do people sit through countless videos of that, idek....Like, yes, Taemin has abs, does that really warrant that reaction?? How do people get any enjoyment from that? And literally EVERY single Kpop reaction video is like that too UGH)
Ritardando was literally the first person I was able to have a normal conversation about Kpop with, and I've been into Kpop on and off for a while now (5-6 years), so that really says a lot imo.
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sarasara
I eat sleep and breathe Yuki
Re-watching a bunch of Kalafina & SHINee live shows, and it's so trippy seeing SHINee perform in the same stages that Kalafina did, it just feels like such a weird collision of two worlds to me haha.
I completely forgot that they both performed at the Tokyo Dome lol, like here's a link to Kalafina's After Eden live and here's a few performances from SHINee's Tokyo Dome Lives:
-1can't get over this performance, like wtf Onew can sing opera, what other Kpop idol can do that???
-2Taemin= Micheal Jackson
-3Still my favorite Sherlock performance of all time
Obviously the stage is way more decked out and flashy for SHINee, but you can still tell it's the same stage, especially in the last video. It's just so weird to me
Also, I find it funny that my two favorite lives from both SHINee and Kalafina took place in Tokyo Dome. After Eden is still probably my favorite Kalafina live by far, and I always tend to like SHINee's Tokyo Dome concerts way better than their Korean concerts lol
I completely forgot that they both performed at the Tokyo Dome lol, like here's a link to Kalafina's After Eden live and here's a few performances from SHINee's Tokyo Dome Lives:
-1
-2
-3
Obviously the stage is way more decked out and flashy for SHINee, but you can still tell it's the same stage, especially in the last video. It's just so weird to me
Also, I find it funny that my two favorite lives from both SHINee and Kalafina took place in Tokyo Dome. After Eden is still probably my favorite Kalafina live by far, and I always tend to like SHINee's Tokyo Dome concerts way better than their Korean concerts lol
R
ritardando
Guest
Re-watching a bunch of Kalafina & SHINee live shows, and it's so trippy seeing SHINee perform in the same stages that Kalafina did, it just feels like such a weird collision of two worlds to me haha.
I completely forgot that they both performed at the Tokyo Dome lol, like here's a link to Kalafina's After Eden live and here's a few performances from SHINee's Tokyo Dome Lives:
-1can't get over this performance, like wtf Onew can sing opera, what other Kpop idol can do that???
-2Taemin= Micheal Jackson
-3Still my favorite Sherlock performance of all time
Obviously the stage is way more decked out and flashy for SHINee, but you can still tell it's the same stage, especially in the last video. It's just so weird to me
Also, I find it funny that my two favorite lives from both SHINee and Kalafina took place in Tokyo Dome. After Eden is still probably my favorite Kalafina live by far, and I always tend to like SHINee's Tokyo Dome concerts way better than their Korean concerts lol
Tokyo Dome City Hall - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Dome_City_Hall (the place where Kalafina concert took place) isn't the same as Tokyo Dome - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Dome (the place where SHINee concert took place). Iirc both buildings are on the same complex (Tokyo Dome City) but they're 2 different buildings with huge difference in size and capacity. Tokyo Dome City Hall (previously known as JCB Hall,iirc - the same place as Red Moon concert and YKL4) max capacity is around 3000 people while Tokyo Dome's capacity is like 15x that.
That Onew performance performing Nessun Dorma cemented his position as favorite SHINee member I love his voice so much.
sarasara
I eat sleep and breathe Yuki
Tokyo Dome City Hall - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Dome_City_Hall (the place where Kalafina concert took place) isn't the same as Tokyo Dome - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Dome (the place where SHINee concert took place). Iirc both buildings are on the same complex (Tokyo Dome City) but they're 2 different buildings with huge difference in size and capacity. Tokyo Dome City Hall (previously known as JCB Hall,iirc - the same place as Red Moon concert and YKL4) max capacity is around 3000 people while Tokyo Dome's capacity is like 15x that.
That Onew performance performing Nessun Dorma cemented his position as favorite SHINee member I love his voice so much.
OH lol. Now I feel stupid
Thanks for letting me know though, I was wondering why the SHINee hall seemed so much larger but since the halls pratically had the same name I didn't question it haha
And yessss, I love that Nessun Dorma performance so much
K
KitsuneMiyu
Guest
It was snowing in Bologna yesterday, and according to my friends, it was a magical sight. But I no longer live in Bologna. Sigh.
yuki.n
Bowl of Yuki-shaped cereal
https://mainichi.jp/articles/20171214/k00/00m/040/163000c An American military helicopter was flying over Okinawa when its window fell off and landed inside the school yard of an elementary school. Around 60 children were outside at that moment for their Physical Education class. Nobody was injured (!!!).
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LianaIlia36
I have reached Yuki nirvana
^Wow! That is fortunate. And very random too... Glad no one got hurt, as plane crashes/helicopter are horrible. My dad flies and every time I just say a little prayer that he lands safely.
S
Special_K
Guest
Harro.
sarasara
I eat sleep and breathe Yuki
random question but has Kalafina ever performed at A-nation? I was watching this live from one of EXO's Japanese performances, and when they showed daylight zoomed out shots of the stage (especially during Girl Problems) it reminded me a lot of a stage Kalafina had done once lol but I might just be remembering things wrong