Kalafina 19th single "Blaze" ED for Arslan Senki Fuujin Ranbu

Yui Makino said:
people can address multiple ideas in a single post so he did two things at once. you asked whether harmonizations and the exclusion of keiko are kalafina style in response to his post when that is not what he was getting at. so yes, it was a general kajiura complaint, not anything related to kalafina specifically.
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I'll try defending myself (or rather the grounds to my response which I feel you are questioning). Don't take this as starting drama or stirring the pot, @Yui Makino, @Atlas Star.

I feel Atlas's statements were related to Kalafina/blaze because he specifically used this song to state his opinion. Atlas complained ("what I hate about Kajiura") about Keiko not having main parts in THIS song (which she could've handled, as Atlas said) because Kajiura felt she needed to use her for lower harmony (as Atlas said) while complimenting the 3way harmonization that sets THIS song (by extension Kalafina, I assumed) apart from other "generic anison".

As I also said above, there was nothing about "Kalafina style" (as everyone keeps throwing it around on the last pages) in response to Atlas's quote in my post.
Atlas Star said:
@grunty then implied that I am being self-contradictory since KEIKO cannot be main vocal and harmonizer at the same time.
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Not sure about "pointing out" self-contradictions but to me it just felt weird to "hate" Kajiura for using Keiko in a way that you seemed to compliment just before.

I've said it before: Kajiura plz disband the groups. Go back to doing solo songs with backing vocalists.
Atlas Star said:
grunty comes in here acting like I don't know what the hell I'm talking about by contradicting myself in the same post?
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I don't think I implied you didn't know what you were saying. I certainly questioned the hate like I mentioned above.
Atlas Star said:
And because you made it seem like grunty's comment was an attempt to help me understand why KEIKO doesn't get melody lines?
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Lolz, definitely not.
 
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I think that another composer should compose A-sides anime themes for Kalafina, and Kajiura only B-sides and albums. I would be better.
 
but why the sudden hate for the anisongs? heavenly blue, believe, one light, and blaze are not the only generic songs to have been composed by kajiura! musundehiraku's arrangement is also very generic and i will admit that it is now my favorite! kouya ruten, although it is fjy, is also very generic for an anisong! so is stone cold! alleluia, i have a dream, consolation are all generic in some way so why the sudden hate for these songs in particular? there is nothing particularly different about kajiura's rock ballads arrangements. i have listened to many songs from anime so i am confused as to why these songs are hated in comparison to her others.
 
Again, precisely! ;p Is there even a set of rules that makes a song "an anisong" other than it just being used in anime? How can one song be "more anisong" than the other if there isn't more to it.
 
^ Kouya Ruten is defenetely not generic anisong (unless you listen to the live ver), it has super violin melody in both intro and bridge and chorus too, catchy melody .
 
I don't know about "generic (ani)song" (since it may have been different than many songs around that time in anime) but going by what you say it doesn't really offer anything particularly new compared to earlier FJY/Kajiura songs so it is a "generic Kajiura song". ;) We could go on...
 
george1234 said:
^ Kouya Ruten is defenetely not generic anisong (unless you listen to the live ver), it has super violin melody in both intro and bridge and chorus too, catchy melody .
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its generic as hell especially for other anime taking place in the same time period
 
^ looked for some of these anime you say that take place in same period but only Hakuoki is close to the Kouya Ruten style (Amatsuki ED which was by Kajiura too didnt really have either) PS: KR was for Bakumatsu era anime.

Late Edo (Bakumatsu) Period:

  • Shura no Toki
  • Otome Yokai Zakuro
  • Requiem from the Darkness
  • The Last Kunoichi
  • Tactics
  • Amatsuki
  • Hakuouki: Shinsengumi Kitan
Earlier Edo Period:

  • House of Five Leaves
  • Shigurui: Death Frenzy
  • Ghost Slayers Ayashi
  • Blade of the Immortal
  • Oh! Edo Rocket
  • Basilisk
  • Tsukikage Ran
  • Ninja Scroll
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from first list
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuIgV1mKTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk2KUum7cbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f3tkW5v3b4
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v40993237kp649pM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3qDO76_AKo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gT1PdzdXbk

And besides she has never done any other song in the Edo style of music so what's so bad with being "generic edo" ?
 
george1234 said:
^ looked for some of these anime you say that take place in same period but only Hakuoki is close to the Kouya Ruten style (Amatsuki ED which was by Kajiura too didnt really have either)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuIgV1mKTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk2KUum7cbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f3tkW5v3b4
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v40993237kp649pM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3qDO76_AKo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gT1PdzdXbk

And besides she has nevver dont any other song in the Edo style of music so what's so bad with being "generic edo".
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when did i say it being generic is bad? be quiet
 
Yui Makino said:
its generic as hell especially for other anime taking place in the same time period
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Did you mean generic compared to other songs for anime in the same time period or just the sound we might associate with that time period? Cause going by the first page of results for Bakumetsu - Meiji Period anime on anidb, I personally wouldn't say Kyouya Ruten was that generic.
Amatsuki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK2KHPmACug / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTR76-FLFo
Donten ni Warau: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecD5ZJfxOrQ / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay56SRyUsq0
Hakuoki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtGiTXSJFLA / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMnyiuOznq4 / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg2zfpu47z8
Hidamari no Ki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Mztf5n8i8
Kyougoku Natsuhiko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgQ4qLhwjH8
Maouryou no Hako: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLc64phEhgI
Shura no Toki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuIgV1mKTs / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk2KUum7cbw
Otome Youkai Zakuro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj10IO-uhSs
Pacemaker Kurogane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX07JzBq70Y
Rurouni Kenshin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI15aWRZQMs / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XezXNVCujcA / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_oMCNM4G8g
Tactics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CX_pe9-Tpo
Ayakashi Ayashi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmgP4TttNbg / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zci6ZlfaNhk

INB4 I am ganging up on @Yui Makino with @george1234. The fun we have wasting time on the interwebs.
 
grunty said:
Did you mean generic compared to other songs for anime in the same time period or just the sound we might associate with that time period? Cause going by the first page of results for Bakumetsu - Meiji Period anime on anidb, I personally wouldn't say Kyouya Ruten was that generic.
Amatsuki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK2KHPmACug / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTR76-FLFo
Donten ni Warau: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecD5ZJfxOrQ / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay56SRyUsq0
Hakuoki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtGiTXSJFLA / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMnyiuOznq4 / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg2zfpu47z8
Hidamari no Ki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Mztf5n8i8
Kyougoku Natsuhiko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgQ4qLhwjH8
Maouryou no Hako: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLc64phEhgI
Shura no Toki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuIgV1mKTs / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk2KUum7cbw
Otome Youkai Zakuro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj10IO-uhSs
Pacemaker Kurogane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX07JzBq70Y
Rurouni Kenshin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI15aWRZQMs / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XezXNVCujcA / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_oMCNM4G8g
Tactics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CX_pe9-Tpo
Ayakashi Ayashi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmgP4TttNbg / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zci6ZlfaNhk

INB4 I am ganging up on @Yui Makino with @george1234. The fun we have wasting time on the interwebs.
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actually, there is no gang mentality here. I already see that you're attempting to further the discussion in a healthy manner but george is jumping on the bandwagon because he has nothing better to do. i was not only limiting myself to op/ed songs but what i said could have implied that so i understand the confusion. however, kouya ruten is still not very innovative IMO in comparison to not only her previous songs but other anime that i've watched where the songs gave me a similar feel. all i'm trying to say is that a lot of the things where we think kajiura is being different she isn't being different at all. and even if she is, its very miniscule. i'm on my phone so i'm not going to waste my life attempting to prove my point in terms of that kouya ruten thing, especially if i have kids. however the one song i'll definitely use to bring it back to kalafina is oblivious. however different would oblivious be from the standard in the absence of hanae and keiko? not very different but we love oblivious and overlook that fact because its kajiura.
 
Ok, just registered to add my two cents to the discussion.
I did not dislike the song. It´s not bad. But it´s not kalafinesque either. If this was composed to Eir Aoi, LiSA or the anisong goddess Nana Mizuki would be perfect. But honestly, I think putting our girls to do this is a waste of talent, they could do much more impressive things. If Kajiura wants to compose these things, ok, but use another artist to sing them.
And yes, I agree to whoever who said it´s generic. I´m starting to hate the fact that Kajiura uses kalafina for anisongs. I understand that´s probably what she´s requested to do, but all those animu songs are starting to get tiresome. The only worth thing are the B-sides and the album tracks. Even the colaborations they do with another artist or the covers they do in TV shows sound much more enjoyable for me.
For me kalafina style is not a genre, it´s a feeling. You can have a slow emotive ballad like Seventh Heaven, a happy bright song like Hikari no Senritsu or even some dark and strong rock track like Mata Kaze ga Tsuyokunatta (sorry, I never learned to write it properly lol) but all of them share this magic and unique feel that makes you fly to another world. Even if you can´t understand the words, feelings reach you ♥
On the contrary, HB, Believe (aka the song that must burn in hell) and all the anison family sound too simple and emotionless. Yes, the girls sing them with lots of illusion and they´re better live, but even so the composition is awful in compairson with the old ones.
 
Yui Makino said:
actually, there is no gang mentality here. I already see that you're attempting to further the discussion in a healthy manner but george is jumping on the bandwagon because he has nothing better to do.
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I guess it was actually me not having better things to do this time since I was the one who butted in on your conversation with him but thank you for seeing me as a civilized person. May you see @george1234 in that light one day.
Yui Makino said:
however the one song i'll definitely use to bring it back to kalafina is oblivious. however different would oblivious be from the standard in the absence of hanae and keiko? not very different but we love oblivious and overlook that fact because its kajiura.
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Please elaborate because I'm not sure what was the point (if you have the time to waste your life, of course, having kids and all). What are we overlooking again? That oblivious WOULDN'T be very different without Hanae? If that's what you meant then I personally have to disagree as I think it would actually be VERY different. After all we can get an idea from the live version with Wakana/Hikaru attempting Hanae's parts (wether it's better/worse is up to the listener).

I'm still not sure what the point with that was though...?
 
@Zinnia Be sure to make an intro thread ^_^

I'm sure you know that Kara no Kyoukai was also an anime, just in movie style, and Kalafina were created for it so i dont see what's wrong with asking them to sing anime songs.
If you look at other countries there are far worse songs that anisongs so dont treat them as if the anisongs are the worse song kind ever existed.
 
There's a clear cutoff point where things turned to shit, however. That point was Heavenly Blue. Some people would argue that TTB or Misterioso were it, but they at least seemed to keep the right kind of feeling that I'd expect to hear from Kalafina even if they weren't necessarily up to the same level of quality.

After HB however, there's not a single anime tie-in song that can be clearly stated as being a great song, every single one of them has been slammed with criticism from numerous people both on here and in other areas I've seen discussion about Kalafina. Naturally some people will like them (and some may dislike their earlier themes), but I suspect if you actually gathered a whole bunch of information on this you'd see a considerable drop in the positivity regarding their singles from that point onwards.
 
grunty said:
I guess it was actually me not having better things to do this time since I was the one who butted in on your conversation with him but thank you for seeing me as a civilized person. May you see @george1234 in that light one day.

Please elaborate because I'm not sure what was the point (if you have the time to waste your life, of course, having kids and all). What are we overlooking again? That oblivious WOULDN'T be very different without Hanae? If that's what you meant then I personally have to disagree as I think it would actually be VERY different. After all we can get an idea from the live version with Wakana/Hikaru attempting Hanae's parts (wether it's better/worse is up to the listener).

I'm still not sure what the point with that was though...?
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different from the standard anisong, not from what it currently is. try to imagine oblivious without hanae and keiko and its generic as hell. that is the point in case you try to pull what you did with atlas. all she has to do is slap on some kajiuran and a matching harmony and you have the kajiuran standard. same with mata kaze ga tsuyokunatta what sets it apart from other songs in the heavy metal genre?

and yeah, i have kids to feed and diapers to change. pseudo intellecutualism and your apparent emotional disconnect from the internet can only take you so far. but of course, you probably don't care. :^)
 
^ Im sorry but that its that little bit that usually changes everything. Many people love kajiura for the vocals she is adding to the songs that normally they dont have. Either if these are OST songs (take Xenosaga - i have seen review where the person was finding weird that it did have vocals - most games soundtracks dont), or Jpop songs, where there were choruses on songs before Kajiura but not in the operatic / chaotic / africanic and anyway exotic to jpop style she gives to them, take oblivious, sandpiper, fairytail, nowhere, and all where YK herself does chorus.

In this light im finding really weird the sudden Vocals drop in her works. It started with Achilles to Kame and then the 15-year old soldier movie, then it went to SAO (has significantly less (4 discs 8 vocals) than pre-Madoka works) , Hanako to Anne, and now Bokumachi :S

At this rate her vocalists will go on strike.
 
Yui Makino said:
different from the standard anisong, not from what it currently is. try to imagine oblivious without hanae and keiko and its generic as hell.
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It would still have what I personally consider a kick-ass instrumental. If you know another composer/band that have a song with oblivious instrumental flavour, I'd definitely appreciate the recommendation.
For science purposes, here's oblivious noHanae, noKeiko, with a shitty reverb on Wakana, quickmixed by yours truly: :fan: ("cpm")
Spoiler: I still like it. A lot. How Wakana goes off on that "wasureta" still amuses me greatly, too.
Yui Makino said:
that is the point in case you try to pull what you did with atlas.
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Whatever do you mean.
Yui Makino said:
all she has to do is slap on some kajiuran and a matching harmony and you have the kajiuran standard. same with mata kaze ga tsuyokunatta what sets it apart from other songs in the heavy metal genre?
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I'm not familiar with heavy metal, other than Japanese bands like Yousei Teikoku if you consider them heavy metal (I wouldn't know, for me it's all pop), so I won't comment on that but: So removing Kajiurago from a Kajiura track which has it makes it lose (a lot of) the Kajiura-flavour? No shit. (Was this kind of question what you had in mind with my supposed potstirring in the previous quote? :p) Like I said in my previous post, I'm not sure what you were getting at.
Yui Makino said:
and yeah, i have kids to feed and diapers to change. pseudo intellecutualism and your apparent emotional disconnect from the internet can only take you so far. but of course, you probably don't care. :^)
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e-Hugs and kisses.
 
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grunty said:
It would still have what I personally consider a kick-ass instrumental. If you know another composer/band that have a song with oblivious instrumental flavour, I'd appreciate the recommendation.
For science purposes, here's oblivious no Hanae, no Keiko, with a shitty reverb on Wakana, quickmixed by yours truly: :fan: ("cpm")
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Wow thanks so much!! <3

since you can do that what about instrumentals for all kalafina b sides ? :D
 
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