INTERVIEWS Yuki Kajiura
Music Yuki Kajiura
YUKI KAJIURA
Composer Yuki Kajiura creates a unique world with her memorable songs using invented words and beautiful melodies. "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" is a work that fully showcases her charm. For the theatrical film, she has written numerous new songs, creating an even more dramatic world. What was working on "Madoka Magica" like for her? We asked her to reflect on the process from the TV series to the theatrical film.
Memories of the TV series "Puella Magi Madoka Magica"
It's been eight years since Yuki Kajiura provided music for a work by Akiyuki Shinbo. However, Yuki Kajiura's music skillfully captures the essence of the project and deepens its world. We asked her to reflect on her experiences with the project, starting from her first meeting with director Shinbo.
―― First, I'd like you to look back at the time of the TV series "Puella Magi Madoka Magica." What were your initial impressions when you were first approached about it?
I received the offer quite a while ago. When I first got the job for "Puella Magi Madoka Magica," I was told, "The artwork is so cute, but the story is amazing. So... don't worry (laughs)." I had previously worked with Director Shinbo on the music for "Le Portrait de Petit Cossette," and I had seen "Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei" and "Bakemonogatari" and thought they were really interesting. So I was looking forward to working with him again after so long.
―― What did you think after actually looking at the materials?
I received the illustrations and script, and they were incredibly interesting. I thought this could become an amazing work. And I thought it was thoroughly entertaining. It surprises the reader or viewer, yet it doesn't betray them. Even when it surprises, it always provides a satisfying resolution for the reader or viewer. Therefore, you don't feel abandoned or frustrated by unsolved mysteries. It might be a male perspective, but it's consistent. Kyoko remains Kyoko, and Madoka remains Madoka. Everyone lives their lives in a way that makes sense and is logical. You can like every character. Even Kyubey is believable. So, although it might have a cruel side, I thought it was a heartwarming story. However, at that stage, I didn't know anything about the artistic aspects, including the participation of Gekidan Inu Curry-san, so from the moment the broadcast started, it was a work that kept me on the edge of my seat in many ways.
―― What were some of the sources you used as inspiration when creating the music for the TV series?
It's definitely the script. The script was completed from the beginning, and I think it hardly changed in the broadcast version. Rather, it was just reorganized, with only a few parts added. It was a work that revolved around the script from the start, and it wasn't a long story, so I think it was a tightly put-together work where you wouldn't get lost in any section.
"'Madoka' is a story about a girl, so I wrote music from a girl's subjective perspective."
―― So, Kajiura-san, you have no hesitation either...
Since this story was about a young girl, I intended to create "music for girls" from beginning to end. I believe that "girls are subjective beings and don't need objectivity." I apologize for comparing it to other works, but for example, in "Fate/Zero," there was no need for subjectivity, so I could create music that depicted the situation from an overarching perspective. There were no subjective characters anywhere in the story. But since "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" is a story about a girl, I thought that subjective music with a narrow perspective would be suitable.
―― What exactly constitutes subjective music?
For example, when depicting "fear," objective fear, like looking at the situation from a detached perspective, isn't very scary, but subjective fear is incredibly frightening. When creating music, the music that accompanies subjective fear, it could be something sounding so strange that it might be considered disgusting by others. It's kind of graphic, like you can hear strange noises.
―― Rather than music that accompanies scenes or landscapes, it's music that reflects the perspective, emotions, and intentions of the characters.
I don't mean this in a bad way, but it's music with a "narrow perspective." I wanted to make sad music incredibly sad. It's as if it's pleading, "I'm sad!" It's music that's full of emotion, like a cry or a plea. I wanted to put that kind of music on it. Of course, if all the music was like that, it would be unbalanced, so I created a variety of songs.
―― In terms of melody and tone...
It depends on the piece, but when I'm creating subjective music, I tend to emphasize the melody. When emphasizing with tone, the tone may become sharper, or a cold, piercing sound like "clang!" may be added.
―― Kajiura-san said that she hadn't been commissioned to compose any "everyday music" for either "Le Portrait de Petit Cossette" or "Puella Magi Madoka Magica."
For "Le Portrait de Petit Cossette" there were absolutely no songs depicting everyday life. At first I was surprised, but when I looked at the work, there was really nothing in it about depicting everyday life, so I thought that was fine. In "Madoka Magica," there were about two songs with an everyday feel to them in the music menu, but the request was "it doesn't have to be that everyday." However, after reading the script for "Puella Magi Madoka Magica," I thought "this definitely needs one (song about everyday life)," so I made a very, in a sense, ordinary song about everyday life (laughs). Sound director (Yota) Tsuruoka-san used that song a lot so I was happy about that.
―― What did the music menu (music order form) for the TV series look like?
It was written in great detail. The scenes were already written out, which made it really easy to create the music. Having the script from the beginning was also an advantage; everything was written in the menu, like "Use this song from this line in episode X." Of course, since it was a TV series, it was ultimately up to the sound director to decide where to use the music, but there were specific instructions.
―― So, you created the song to fit that scene?
Yes, I knew that it would be a dense work compressed into 12 episodes, so to maintain balance, there's a lot of light, explanatory music. I thought that if the music was too eloquent, it would become information overload.
―― That kind of thing comes from thoroughly reading the script; it's a sense of balance in adding and subtracting elements. Are there any instruments you used frequently when composing the music?
I didn't consciously intend to, but I wanted to create a feminine, fluffy feeling, so I used a lot of bell-like sounds.
―― Does a bell-like sound make it sound more feminine?
Bell-like sounds don't always have a fixed pitch, do they? I wanted to use that wavering feeling to create a floating, ethereal atmosphere. I thought that something that wasn't grounded, something a little lighthearted, would be more suitable for "girl's music." Except for the music during the scene where the big witch appears, the rest of the music is ethereal and floating.
―― The song "Credens justitiam" that plays during Mami's fight scene features a female chorus. Is that use of chorus also a variation of the "girl" theme?
That theme song for Mami was originally a song for battle. Tsuruoka-san decided to use it for Mami, making it into her theme. To make that song feel like a "satisfying battle," we used a vibrant female chorus. We also used a female chorus in the song that represents what a magical girl is ("Sis puella magica!"). The only other songs that used chorus were two Walpurgisnacht songs ("Surgam identidem" and "Nux Walpurgis"). For those, we used a mixed chorus to create a sense of gravitas.
―― In contrast to that kind of background music, the ending theme "Magia" is...
That song is incredibly grounded and realistic (lol). When I was asked to write the ending theme, "Magia" was the most unconventional choice. At first, the director and staff were all struggling with the direction of the ending, and initially, they were leaning towards something safe like "Let's go with a ballad." And somehow, "Magia" came to be. I submitted it as a first attempt, saying, "How about this for now?" before creating any other candidate songs. I thought that if I created other options, they might choose one of those. I threw a curveball as my first pitch, and they gave me the OK. In return, it became the ending theme from episode 3 onwards.
―― "Magia" was used as the opening theme for the first episode, but no one expected it to become the ending theme from the third episode onwards.
"Magia" is the dark side of "Puella Magi Madoka Magica." The lyrics themselves aren't dark, but the song ended up being a dark piece that contrasts sharply with the lighthearted background music.
―― So, Kajiura-san, it seems you ended up creating music that represents both extremes of the work.
The opening song, "Connect" by ClariS, is a really great song; I love its lighthearted, girlish feel.
―― Was "Magia" also meant to evoke the image of a "girl"?
Girls love to change their appearance, don't they? So I'm sure girls want to transform into magical girls, and they're also interested in the dark side. Even though I don't want to become that kind of person, there's something about my dark side that I find appealing. There are times when I secretly want to act dark and cute, and I have a hidden feeling in my heart that maybe it's okay to be a darker version of myself. A girl around middle school age can become the me in ClariS's "Connect," and also the me in "Magia." I think that's the charm of being a girl.
Singing of hope more deeply, more intensely.
Yuki Kajiura composed 49 songs for the TV series and 38 new songs for the theatrical film. The world of "Madoka Magica" was meticulously crafted. Let's unravel the thoughts and feelings behind it.
―― "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" received a huge response after its broadcast began. How did you view that response, Ms. Kajiura?
Until the end of episode 3, I thought viewers would say that I was a "miscast" (laughs). Moreover, when we performed "Magia" at a Kalafina concert before episode 3 aired, there were a lot of question marks like, "Is it a magical girl show ending?" After episode 3, I think people gradually started to accept me. Ultimately, this story isn't a story of despair; even with the shocking scenes, it's a story of hope. So, even though the broadcast period was a very sensitive time, I think viewers were able to gain courage. I think it was a really great work.
―― What were your thoughts when you were approached about the theatrical film adaptation?
I received the offer for the theatrical film project at an early stage. I was told it would be a combination of two compilation films plus one new film, and I was really looking forward to it. Actually, at first I was told that since it was a compilation film, "we'll be using music from the TV series." Then they said, "There might be some additional music." ...So I was thinking it would be maybe around 10 songs.
―― How many songs did you compose for the TV series?
There are 49 songs. These are all the songs included on the soundtrack that comes with the DVD or Blu-ray.
―― Oh, I see. So, there are about 59 songs in the theatrical version...
That's about how much I thought I'd need at first, so I planned my schedule accordingly. Then, when we decided to have a meeting, I looked at the music menu and... there were nearly 40 new songs in total.
―― My goodness!
You'd think you're in a comfortable situation, "This isn't a new release, is it? It's a compilation, right?" But then the actual order was 38 songs with a few variations. I was quite surprised.
―― We were surprised too.
In the TV series, we reuse music to make it memorable. But in the movie, if we did that, the same song would play five or six times. So, we decided to use new music. So, the meaning of the scene hasn't changed, but the song has. However, in the second part, there are scenes that make you think, "Isn't this a music video?" And I thought, "Thank you, Tsuruoka-san!!"
―― There were some musically rewarding scenes, weren't there? Was there a musical menu this time as well?
Once again, Tsuruoka-san created the music menu for us. He gave us specific instructions like, "This song goes with this scene." We basically followed those instructions. There are a few songs where we made an effort to make the lingering feeling last longer, but that's about it.
―― In the TV series, you seemed to value the image of a "girl," but what kind of image did you have in mind when you created the music for the theatrical version?
I think it's become more dramatic. For theatrical films, the music is created specifically for each scene, so versatility isn't necessary; the dynamics and other aspects can be considered to suit that scene. You can start with a lot of music and then later tone it down to make it quiet. By adding extreme sounds, you can create a very distinctive piece of music. Music that accompanies the scene, music that breathes with the scene—that's what I think makes a film a film.
―― What was the most memorable thing about the music menu in the theatrical film?
Nothing was particularly surprising, but during the meeting, I received feedback such as "I want to give it a cinematic feel" and "make it a little more dramatic," which I added to my notes. The mindset you have when watching something for 30 minutes is different from watching something for 2 hours, isn't it? Since it's something you watch for 2 hours in the enclosed space of a movie theater, you want the excitement to be much bigger and more impactful than in a 30-minute film. I think they were looking for a cinematic tension.
―― They're also using music from the TV series, right?
Almost all of the music created for the TV series was used in the theatrical version as well. We used almost all of it, and then we were commissioned to create even more music that was needed. So, there are nearly 90 songs played in the two-part film. Well, some movies use 40 to 50 songs, so perhaps that's a reasonable number when you think about it.
―― When it comes to film music, there's a style that involves "composing it with variations of the main theme," but does the theatrical version of "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" have a main theme?
Yes, we do. We created variations of songs that were frequently used in the original TV series. There were two songs that were used a lot in the TV series, such as the one nicknamed "Kyubey's Sales Theme" (Sis puella magica!). For the movie version, we increased the variations of those songs. We created various themes such as "The Theme of a Scheming Salesman" and "The Theme of a Kind-Hearted Salesman."
―― "Sis puella magica!" was a representative song of this work, wasn't it?
I think that was more due to the power of the scene in which it was used, rather than the power of the song itself. Tsuruoka-san's skillful and persistent use of that song made it stand out.
A girl can become anything - adorning magical girls with music.
―― In TV series, the composer creates the music first, and the sound director selects the tracks, but in movies, the composer creates the music to match the visuals, right? Will this be the latter case?
I leave it entirely up to Tsuruoka-san and the director to decide where and how to use the music for the TV series, but for new songs, I create the music to perfectly match the visuals, making sure it's timed very precisely, like "This music should play right after this line of dialogue!" However, I think there are some scenes where the final timing has changed since I received the drawings, so I can only hope that it works out well.
―― I'm sure you composed a lot of completely new music for the background music...
[Part 1] had a lot of short new songs. In the TV series, we used the same music for the battle scenes with the witches many times, so we replaced all of those with different songs. [Part 2] has longer songs that have been changed, so I think you'll get a different impression when you listen to it. There are also some beautiful, completely new scenes. There's a scene with Kyoko where music is set for about four minutes. I put my all into creating the music, including for the space scenes. For the space scenes, the request was "Please create music that sounds like the universe is being born" (laughs). I somehow managed to create a song that sounds like the universe is being created.
―― Wow! How did you create the witch's song?
Actually, the Gekidan Inu Curry-san joined us for the music meeting. When Inu Curry is creating the image of a witch, they also prepare all the lyrics in advance.
―― Wow! Are there's lyrics for all the witches?
I have lyrics for all the witches. In the first episode of the TV series, when the witches (familiars) appear, the familiars are all shouting something, right? I received all of those and was given the image of the song. Due to time constraints, there were some parts where I couldn't include lyrics, but I created two songs with German lyrics based on the witch scenes. One song is entirely new. The other song was used so memorably that I couldn't bear to change it, so I deliberately kept the melody with strings and added German lyrics in the style of Inu Curry. One of the two songs is sung by a child, and the other is sung by a woman.
―― Since it's a movie, 5.1ch sound will be used. Does that change anything when you're creating the music?
It doesn't change much. If I do a really unusual mix, the way the music sounds will vary greatly depending on the theater, so I don't usually do any outlandish mixes. I think there would be some acoustic changes if it were sound effects, though. However, the good thing about 5.1ch is that the dialogue and music each stand out. I like this environment because it allows you to create an environment where the music sounds good even at a fairly high volume. When I'm mixing for 5.1ch, it sounds so good that I sometimes end up listening to it again and again in the studio.
A Grand Finale Dedicated to Fans
Yuki Kajiura and Kalafina, the group she produces, provided three songs for the theatrical film. Melodies familiar to fans of "Puella Magi Madoka Magica" are transformed into songs, vividly coloring the story. These were gifts from Yuki Kajiura and Kalafina to fans of the work.
―― The ending theme for the theatrical version of [Part 1] has been arranged as "Magia[quattro]".
Basically, I added strings. I changed the mix quite a bit, adding a ridiculous amount of strings. Everyone told me I added too many strings, so I cut some parts. Sorry, I got carried away and wrote too much (laughs). That song is really fun to play around with.
―― This time, they also created the insert song "Future" (「未来」).
To explain the background, that song was actually not originally intended to be an insert song. Kalafina was asked to sing the ending theme for the second part, and we were thinking about what kind of B-side to include in the single. We thought, "Let's cover a song that everyone has heard before," so we made a Japanese demo of "Credens justitiam." After it was finished, we thought, "Maybe this could be the ending theme too," so when we were in a meeting with Director Shinbo, we played the song and said, "By the way, we have this song."
―― So, it was originally intended to be a coupling song, or a candidate for the ending theme, right?
There were two songs considered as ending themes, both based on background music from the TV series. One was a mellow song, and the other was the upbeat "Credens justitiam." Looking back now, I think that might have been a strategy by Aniplex (laughs). Director Shinbo heard that song and said, "Let's use this in the main story." And that's how it became an insert song.
―― Are the Japanese lyrics a free translation of the original song's chorus?
The original chorus lyrics are just meaningless sounds. So this time, I wrote lyrics that were inspired by Mami. When I was writing the lyrics, I was picturing a scene where Mami has hope. At that time, Mami was dreaming big about the future, so I wrote lyrics that reflected those dreams. Of course, I wasn't writing it with the intention of it being used as an insert song, so I was a little worried, but I think the distance between the lyrics and the scene, which isn't too close, worked out well.
―― The experimental spirit of "I tried adding lyrics as a demo..." is what expands the world of the work.
Since songs with invented words are melodies specifically for those words, Japanese doesn't usually fit very well. However, sometimes I come across a song where I think, "Ah, this could work in Japanese," and I end up doing it. Most of the time, these songs end up being shelved, but this time it was one of those that got used.
―― And so, one of the two songs considered for the ending theme became "Future" (「未来」), and the other became "Hikari Furu" (「ひかりふる」).
"Hikari Furu" (「ひかりふる」) was a deliberate choice. When I recall the climactic space scene in "Madoka Magica," the background music that left the biggest impression on me was this one, and I wanted people to hear it one more time at the end. Putting Japanese lyrics to it is difficult. Some songs work well with Japanese lyrics, and some don't. But this song was the type that beautifully suited Japanese lyrics. I wondered what it would sound like if I turned it into a song, so I tried it. It turned out really well, and with the addition of a new melody, I felt I had created a song that was perfectly suited to the ending.
―― Since it was originally background music, fans of the TV series might be twice as happy to hear it.
I created this song hoping that it would be a fitting ending, as it's a melody that many of you have probably heard on TV, originating from "Puella Magi Madoka Magica." Given that this is a compilation film, I personally think it would be wonderful to have a familiar melody played as a song for the grand finale. Of course, that was just one option; another option was to write a new song. The technique of putting vocals over background music felt a bit overused, but I personally wanted to try it this time.
―― What I'm really curious about is the next theatrical film...
Wow, it's incredible. The story is amazing (laughs). I never expected it to go that way.
―― Could it be that you have already read the script?
I had the opportunity to read it ahead of time. The compilation films followed the TV series, but the next one will be a new work, so the music will probably be mostly new songs. If any music from the TV series is used, it will likely be from a part of the work that connects to the original, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
―― So, that concludes our discussion on "[The Movie] Rebellion."
That's right. First, I have to go see it in theaters... But I guess theaters will be crowded for a while. Even if you watch [Parts 1 & 2] in one go, it’ll probably feel like it’s over in the blink of an eye.
―― The impression you get after watching it will probably be different from watching the TV series.
I think so. I recommend watching it all in one go. I think [Part 1]'s climax will feel heavier than the TV series. And "Magia[quattro]" that follows will also resonate deeply (laughs).
～Profile～
⬤ Kajiura Yuki／Composer and music producer. Debuted as part of the group See-Saw. This is her first collaboration with director Shinbo since "Le Portrait de Petit Cossette." She says, "'Puella Magi Madoka Magica' is a work that is enjoyable no matter how many times you watch it."
Notes in general. Once again thank you so much for taking the effort and passion to dig out and translate all of these.
Had the same thought. One thing that I got reminded again from reading these interviews is that we as consumers often hold very different views on what's 'appropriately done' and what's less so. Makes me feel more grateful for the precious moments when we can somehow resonate strongly with certain pieces of music and the thoughts behind their creation, and no matter what it's a pleasure to learn about a creator's approach/perspective.
