「Kalafina Anniversary LIVE 2025」15th January Tokyo Garden Theater (NO KAJIURA INVOLVEMENT)

[george1234]

Extremely dead unless you are a Persona or Kingdom Hearts game. Most of the popular songs from video games are straight up OSTs or ending credits songs (Final Fantasy and the like, especially).

Most video games don't really do "openings" the same way anime does either. The ones that do are largely VNs or have VN-like elements, but they tend to be "popular" only within their own fandom only and don't see any success outside of very niche fanbases.

What about the game soundtracks though ? i dont mean only of games that are anime style, but in general. I wanted Kajiura to compose for a game even if its not anime style.

 

[grunty]

Kay, I think I'm done with this "strategy" train. What's the point of trying to have some discussion when you can't stick to one subject matter.

You started with being displeased of Kalafina's tie-in strategy ("I think a strategy with them singing for more popular anime would be better strategy for popularising than killing the ladies with endless rehearsals & live performances.") by which you explicitly stated you meant the "popularity" of projects Kalafina participated in (and we're telling you they don't necessarily get attached to any or every one they want).

Then you kept commenting on your perceived "quality" of those projects and music, instead of focusing on the actual "popularity" of those projects.

Then you added Kajiura's music & projects she worked on (rather than sticking to "Kalafina strategy") and your perceived quality of them into your posts.

And then shared your hopes and dreams when it comes to Kajiura's music and, well, fair enough (we all have those) but it's not on topic that you started with.

Soooo... Guess I tried but maybe shouldn't have. I see no point.

PS.
Going back to your previous post when I said I would wait for you to edit. That post has some timeloop with Aldnoah that I don't even know how to interpret. (Edit: I think I get that sentence now. I'm dum.)

I can guess the Kalafina projects that you "disliked" so much were just "Arslan" and "Zaregoto". I've no idea how Arslan did on TV or DVD but Zaregoto sold over 10k physical units PER episode so let me tell you it was popular. It may not have given the exposure that airing on TV would've given to Kajiura/Kalafina, sure, but it was not a flop project by any means.

 

[grunty]

AND ONE MORE FOR GOOD MEASURE

@george1234
Your entire point of Kalafina being part of more "popular" projects so they could've had LESS rehearsals & lives is QUESTIONABLE. So what do YOU think they would've needed the project's "popularity" for (per your suggestion)?

 

[george1234]

I forgot to edit my post i ll do it today
. Edited now.


What i wanted to say is Kajiura /SC could follow the FJYukka FJKeiko FjWakana FJKaori model of 2004-2008 where they released songs for popular shows without loads of lives(maybe do 1 tour per year only like now) , this way the girls could become more popular without overusing their voice

And why not mix Kalafina and Kajiura if they re linked ? I feel like when she is pressured it shows both on her jpop and bgm output. Sorry for confusing you, i wrote it on phone so it wasn't easy to keep the text consistent.

The games thing was a separate topic somehow(because you asked and Saber replied).

 

[grunty]

I forgot to edit my post i ll do it today
. Edited now.


What i wanted to say is Kajiura /SC could follow the FJYukka FJKeiko FjWakana FJKaori model of 2004-2008 where they released songs for popular shows without loads of lives(maybe do 1 tour per year only like now) , this way the girls could become more popular without overusing their voice

And why not mix Kalafina and Kajiura if they re linked ? I feel like when she is pressured it shows both on her jpop and bgm output. Sorry for confusing you, i wrote it on phone so it wasn't easy to keep the text consistent.

The games thing was a separate topic somehow(because you asked and Saber replied).

So your strategy for Kalafina to be attached to more popular anime was all so that the Kalafina members would have to do other jobs to make a living. Sounds like you'd be a great artist manager/agent. Congrats.

I'm not discussing anything more with you.

 

[george1234]

As you want. Im not a manager / agent so what i say might be wrong. It worked fine between 2004-8 and everyone was happy. Kajiura composed for many different artists without exhausting only 3. Yes they might had the need to do other activities too to make a living but they wouldnt need to sing the same difficult songs countless times on dozens of small lives.

Yes maybe this is against the interest of the talent agent or the income from lives but its beneficial for both the girls voice health and their relationship with Kajiura. Yuuka finished her time with Kajiura without any sort of drama, Saeko too, and with Chiaki even had a short reunion.

 

[grunty]

There's nothing that makes logical sense to me about your idea of "popularising" Kalafina with the result being less work for them as Kalafina. Maybe you never meant to suggest a "better strategy for popularising" Kalafina, but "popularising" Kajiura, even though we are in a thread about Kalafina and you were responding to @CloisteredFlame 's hypothetical questions about Kalafina being held back by some forces.

I have no strength left in me for interpreting what this was about. I'm clearly too dum for it. I'm good.

 

[george1234]

I wanted popularising with involvement in more popular shows than too many small lives and 2 tours per year like they did. Anyway:


Maybe my original post was slitely out of topic compared to clouistered flame one. I dont know about the musical evolvement cause if you except some rap songs that appeared, the OP/ED songs dont sound much different now compared to what Kalafina did back then. Stylistically the girls debuted as mystery figures with old style dresses (oblivious promo, storia, fairytale, Lacrimosa coverarts) but then changed to more modern look (one light, progressive coverarts).

I think as long as the fanbase is pleased there is no need to change anything to appeal to new fashions. (Here in my country there are artists who have the same type of songs for over 60 years and they re still popular like Savopoulos or Portokaloglou @wat11 and some like Marina Sati who became popular by making covers of traditional songs but then changed to a much modern style after her Eurovision participation last year, and i think nobody liked this shift.)

 

[CloisteredFlame]

As an aside, I just discovered "Yasashii Uta" via Apple Music and I like the track. Really cute and positive (Kajiura's sentimental side showing again )

They should perform this the next time they reunite again.

 

[CloisteredFlame]

I forgot to edit my post i ll do it today
. Edited now.


What i wanted to say is Kajiura /SC could follow the FJYukka FJKeiko FjWakana FJKaori model of 2004-2008 where they released songs for popular shows without loads of lives(maybe do 1 tour per year only like now) , this way the girls could become more popular without overusing their voice

And why not mix Kalafina and Kajiura if they re linked ? I feel like when she is pressured it shows both on her jpop and bgm output. Sorry for confusing you, i wrote it on phone so it wasn't easy to keep the text consistent.

The games thing was a separate topic somehow(because you asked and Saber replied).

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your initial post, but to @grunty 's point, if Kalafina were more popular, they would actually have more work, not less.

Maybe you're thinking that with a lot more popular anime song tie-ins they would make more money per project, so they won't need to do so many lives, and so they would have preserved their voices for longer? Am I close to your meaning?

I think the strenuous concert / performance schedule they had was actually due to their relative popularity. Space Craft and other stakeholders were the ones making the decisions for the lives, not Kajiura or Kalafina. They knew the financial and marketing targets they wanted to hit and utilized Kalafina as their biggest (arguably) act to drive their income, whether to their health/ vocal benefit or not.

Actually to that point, I recently watched a YouTube interview of Jon Bellion (a successful artist and songwriter, look him up) by George Janko, and he talked about how artists are given exploitative contracts that keep them in servitude for many years, being overused in lives to sell merch and make money for the labels, etc. He had to leave his label and for 6 years not release any solo work until he could start again, stronger and owning his own music, and time.

Thinking of that interview just now made me rethink Kajiura's decision to leave SC. The popular story is just the Mori situation, but Kajiura probably also wanted to leave a restrictive contract that strained her (and in turn the Kalafina girls), by having them work on so many projects in such a short time.

For the girls, this also seemingly prevented them from developing any solo projects apart from their work on Kalafina, thus affecting (or significant delaying) their career development as individual artists. That decision was not Kajiura's, especially considering Kaori/Yuriko were able to develop as solo artists and record with other composers while working with FJ.

There was no social media to build a personal following and they could only do Kalafina stuff on the official group blog.

In terms of a LiSA, she was also doing a lot of touring but she was being developed as a personal brand (don't know about her contract details but she can probably negotiate well for herself).

If you can spare the time, watch that interview with Jon Bellion.

It makes me think of why Revo keeps his IP well under his control, and why Kajiura after leaving SC took her time to set up her own talent management company (FictionJunction) to handle her IP and scheduling going forward, etc., before linking up with Highway Star on her own terms, and I believe she’s brought most of her own singers under FictionJunction talent management as well.

Those that were clamoring against Kajiura‘a response to the Kalafina reunion were just reacting emotionally as fans to the backlash to the girls online, not thinking deeper about the cause of the "beef" being more contractual and principled than just emotional/childish.

(Edits to correct autocorrect errors due to typing on a phone, and refine grammar. )

 

[george1234]

Maybe you're thinking that with a lot more popular anime song tie-ins they would make more money per project, so they won't need to do so many lives, and so they would have preserved their voices for longer? Am I close to your meaning?

Yes this was what i was thinking. Yes contracts could be the reason too but they re not made public so we dont know. i have heard some really nasty things about whats happening in Kpop where the agencies are much much more manipulative. Yes i ll look at that interview you told me.

 

[CloisteredFlame]

I believe she’s brought most of her own singers under FictionJunction talent management as well.

OK, maybe I'm wrong on this.

Actually, I just thought because I saw their profiles on her website that they were under her management as well. I checked her blog and saw that this wasn't the case. FictionJunction only manages her (Kajiura's) career, and no other artists'.

Just wanted to correct myself.

 

[CloisteredFlame]

Just listening to "In Dulci Jubilo", from Kalafina's Winter Acoustic and it's just...lovely!

They really had to use a more intricate and calm/deliberate choral-style harmonization, which showcased their vocal quality.

I would say it's one of their best harmony work in their entire discography from a purely vocal quality and blend perspective.

 

[george1234]

I just watched the interview you menthioned, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHTBD_tcV9E i hope its this one and not the 2 hours video. Interesting but i wasnt shocked. It means the label gives him alot of money upfront but they take x4 of that after the tours as profit. . And yes those sell offs of tickets while it was his only profit was so scammy and unfair. We knew nothing about the Kalafina girls contracts, just that they sell CDs and merch and tickets. Afraik japanese venues seem to never have ticket discounts apart from those they give away in lottery.
Its important for everyone before signed contract to read it even with the "neighborhood lawyer" that he mentioned to avoid unpleasant surprises.
Found this one too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6kYZjyHj1c

 

[CloisteredFlame]

Interesting but i wasnt shocked. It means the label gives him alot of money upfront but they take x4 of that after the tours as profit.

Thank you for your reply and for actually watching the clip (the ~ 2 hour one is the full interview, so it's not necessary to watch it all)
I'm guessing this happens a lot in the American industry when they get really young and talented artists with their exploitative contracts. I'm not sure of how it is in Japan, though I've heard some anime studios are quite heavy-handed with there animators in how they were overworked.

I was shocked when I heard that at one point at the height of her career the great Whitney Houston was getting broke partly because she was in a bad contract that wasn't giving her commensurate returns to her stardom and fame and talent, and partly because of her lifestyle and family issues too.

Mariah Carey also had it bad initially on her career as I've heard, until she took control of her career and really developed her songwriting for other artists. Michael Jackson fought for years to gain control of the master copies of his music, which were worth billions of dollars. The list goes on...


The younger and hungrier an artist is to get into the entertainment industry, the easier it is for them to be mistreated and deceived for a long time.

i have heard some really nasty things about whats happening in Kpop where the agencies are much much more manipulative.

I've heard about insane training regimens and expectations in KPOP, especially with so many of them having to do plastic surgery to even look the past in the first place.

I wasn't aware of the contract side of things, but it's not too surprising since they emulate the American industry so directly.

Not saying this is exactly what happened to Kajiura since she was already fairly established as a successful composer, though for Kalafina (especially since they were really young and probably following the directives of the agency) they had less negotiating leverage or even awareness (though Keiko with a wealthy family probably had legal representation (hence why she was so confident to initially go after the trademark).

Keiko and Wakana came up in SC so they world have had different contracts from Hikaru, who was just starting out. They prossibly made more than her.


I know I'm reaching here but maybe contract considerations were part of Maya's sudden exit and not necessarily get being too young. I mean even looking at the official story, weren't her parents aware of what she was doing, before the dad came to pull her out? Maybe the family was arguing about her entering entertainment, or maybe the proposed workload for Kalafina, expected by SC, would not even allow her to pursue school (looking at the eventual workload for Kalafina in the long run).

For comparison, Kaori pursued school while with Sound Horizon and thereafter, same with Maria of Gardinellia, and the Perfume ladies, and even Babymetal). Anyway I'm speculating all through. ;p

To return to my original question, many factors played a role in Kalafina's success and their relative stagnation compared to their potential, or at least uniqueness, in the industry, and leading to Kajiura and Keiko leaving, and then their disbanding.

The business (contractual) angle and trademark/copyright of it is very important in the overall calculus, though it's also the most opaque aspect throwing up a lot of questions.

The mathematics is different if you're just a singer (mono-skilled), or you compose music or write lyrics for yourself and others, or arrange, or do it all, like Revo or Kajiura or Sawano (plus or minus singing to varying degrees).

It's also important if you have any control over your masters (original mastered copies), and how your copyright is handled (your next of kin/royalties to family, etc.).

 

[george1234]

Ι agree, there are many details we don't know. As for Maya i think that it wasn't about the contract (which she probably signed way before recording sprinter) but maybe that her parents didn't want her to sign with label but focus in school only, that's why her artist path was much more free style like dance with friends n stuff.

 

[CloisteredFlame]

Well, I know I was extending the contract scenario as far as I could manage. Maya's case remains a sticking point for many, including me.

It just reminds me of Yui of Babymetal and how she suddenly disappeared from the group, with an official statement or something.

And nothing else.