Watching Yuki Kajiura ANIME long after they aired.

So I started PandoraHearts like 2 weeks ago... and I'm only about to watch ep9. The first four episodes were an absolute chore to get through - I fell asleep whenever I would try watching more than one episode. It's been better since ep5.

I honestly don't remember anything from the show so far. Maybe I never finished it? Some of it seems interesting, some - incredibly boring.
The pacing in those first four episodes was atrocious - don't really know if it's the anime's fault 'cause the more recent Vanitas also had terrible pacing I thought. It gets better later but there's still an annoying amount of flashbacking/recapping (including scenes from the same episode). I like Mochizuki's comedy here and in Vanitas so no complaints from me there. Characters and voice acting are mostly fine, though I'm not yet buying Alice and Ayako Kawasumi.

A lot of the sound direction is very weird. At first a lot of it was very quiet, like you didn't even notice much music, but then in other places it got obnoxious. I don't know why they chose to blast "Pandora hearts" complete with vocal fullforce during exposition dumps in ep4 and 8, same with "Bloody rabbit" vocal only in ep4 - those processed vocals are repetitive and super distracting from dialogue. "Alone" in ep3 didn't fare that much better either, but that could also be due to other things (below). And I'm saying that as someone used to Mashimo's sound direction with all the songs Kajiura had in his anime... o_0
And what's even weirder, and I had to look at multiple sources to double check if it wasn't just the version I was watching, the dialogue sounds like it is often peaking/cutting off. The distortions are incredibly annoying. Like I implied above, I think the music, sound effects and dialogue often clash in the mix.

I seem to remember people complaining about production values on this show but I actually don't find them too bad now. The character designs are mostly striking, the real world environments are rather pretty. Sure - there's a lot of shadow conturing and the colors are often washed out but there's also moments where they switch it up and it gets very effective. On the other hand, the Abyss visuals themselves are a little bland, but I guess not everybody can be Inu Curry.
The animation is mostly functional and to me only sucked in the B-rabbit action sequences so far - and again, I have to say Vanitas did not have the greatest action sequences either, so my conclusion would be that they really needed someone good to spruce up Mochizuki's original on that front.

I'll definitely go through the first half, will see if I want to finish it.

PS.
If anyone is considering buying the German blurays, I recommend not to. It is advertised as "SD on bluray" but when the quality is worse than DVD, something clearly went wrong. I don't know who messed up (Kaze/crunchy themselves or a licensor providing poor masters) but the video is utter shite. Poorly deinterlaced, defects looking like dotcrawl, less detail than Japanese DVDs. Avoid.
 
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I'm a Jun-sensei fan and I have to say that the manga version of Pandora Hearts / Vanitas is awesome. But the anime is incredibly bad.
- In Pandora Hearts, the studio removed important content and added unnecessary things, which made the anime extremely boring.
- In Vanitas, the studio removed important content and tried to make the anime into a BL genre even though the story is not BL. What the studio did resulted in Jun-sensei receiving threats from some who wanted it to be a Yaoi(I like Noe x Vanitas, but I feel like those guys went overboard).
 
What did they remove/add in the first four episodes of PH? If it's not a spoiler. The pacing was honestly whack there in the show.

If they tried to make Vanitas no Carte into BL then they failed, 'cause I did not get that at all, beyond maybe Noe having a nice smile at the end of ep6 or 7 in the belltower ending & maybe the first cour finale pouting. Heck, maybe I'd think the anime was better if they HAD leaned into the BL.
Other than that, Vanitas was a total creep with Jeanne - was that not in the mango? Did Vanitas' and Noe's trust/relationship not constantly make 1 step forward and 2 steps back in the mango? It was absolutely ass and drawn out in the anime. The 24 episodes felt like a prologue to a story and I'm guessing that's not the anime's fault.

Also, since you got me curious, was bloodsucking not sexualized in the mango?

PS. "threats" should be blamed on the person sending them, not adaptation changes.
 
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grunty said:
What did they remove/add in the first four episodes of PH? If it's not a spoiler. The pacing was honestly whack there in the show.

If they tried to make Vanitas no Carte into BL then they failed, 'cause I did not get that at all, beyond maybe Noe having a nice smile at the end of ep6 or 7 in the belltower ending & maybe the first cour finale pouting. Heck, maybe I'd think the anime was better if they HAD leaned into the BL.
Other than that, Vanitas was a total creep with Jeanne - was that not in the mango? Did Vanitas' and Noe's trust/relationship not constantly make 1 step forward and 2 steps back in the mango? It was absolutely ass and drawn out in the anime. The 24 episodes felt like a prologue to a story and I'm guessing that's not the anime's fault.

Also, since you got me curious, was bloodsucking not sexualized in the mango?

PS. "threats" should be blamed on the person sending them, not adaptation changes.
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I don't remember the details clearly because it was so long ago. In my memory, the studio liked to lengthen scenes or repeat scenes with a soundtrack.
If you want to read the manga, I can send you the link via DM. It's not licensed because it's a long time ago:desksweat:
 
genesiƨ said:
It's not licensed because it's a long time ago
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From what I'm seeing, the American edition of PH manga is still available in print and as kindle so it's not really "not licensed".

I'm good. Not interested in mangas these days.

Maybe one day we get a new PH adaptation that is considered more faithful by its fans. Whether that would actually be a better anime in my eyes is another thing. It's been a while now too but I liked FMA2003 more than Brohood for example. :p

We all have our kinks.
 
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Kay, finished PH#10. Seems like a good place to stop with #8-10 being one story... Again, much like the opening 4 episodes, this arc should've probably been less episodes (2). Having one half of #10 be Oz walking up while being shot at with fatherly melodrama was sleep inducing, rather than dramatic or emotional. The B-rabbit fight in #9 was once again trash (though Echo's part before B-rabbit was pretty good, interestingly enough). Too many flashbacks/recaps again.

I want to say only #9-10 could've been one episode ('cause #8 was mostly fine) but I also thought the 2nd half of #10 was pretty good - figure it's easier to recalibrate 3 episodes into 2, than 2 into 1...

Edit:
Also, because I've not mentioned it yet, Akira Ishida is the best character as usual. ;p
 
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Just started Pandora Hearts, and I will update this post with each new episode I watch!

-Alright so I’ve just gotten started and I’m already really confused.
-The show’s tone feels really . . . Off? The humor really does just pop in at random moments and I’m not sure how to process it.
-The cold open doesn’t play the Main Theme BOOOOOOOOO.
-Only character I kind of like so far is Gilbert, but that’s almost entirely because I feel rather sorry for him. That may not get him far in my books, but ‘being forced to be around Oz’ does still win him some huge sympathy points.
-Speaking of Oz, talk about a little twerp. I don’t tend to gravitate towards characters like him but DEARRR GODDDD this kid needs a reality check. The good news is that it looks like it’s coming, but the bad news is that it’s probably gonna turn him into some edgelord.
-I like the part where they fall down the hole and they’re perfectly fine. Then they climb up . . . Somehow. It looked like there were stairs, but the lighting was kind of confusing.
-Lacie’s Theme was very well implemented, but I didn’t find a lot of the other sound choices to be that interesting.
-I like the part where Oz stares directly at the camera to tell the audience about his family issues. Great exposition work, guys.
-I wonder what the deal is with the strangle-lady and the other-lady.
-So far: not that impressed, but kinda curious to see where it heads.

-Okay, so I had the wrong edgelord. Figured that out after seeing the OP again.
-This was a better episode than the last one, but I think that’s just because I like weird dark things happening.
-The exception is that stabbing scene, where the vibes felt very . . . Questionable.
-Strangle-Lady is Bloody Rabbit! That earns her twenty points in my book.
-That Sharon chick talks like she’s forty; is there a time loop going on?
-AKIRA ISHIDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Gilbert is DARK and BROODING and SO TORTURED *cue a Linkin Park song*
-Uhhhhhhh what else happened other than Suffering and Weird Vibes.
-Another Secret Society; should have seen that one coming.
-Well I wonder how they explained that to Ada. “Hey so your brother’s kinda, uh . . . Dead? We think? Also your other friend’s on death door but he’ll be fine. Physically. We think. Go play with your cat I guess.”

-He was only in the Abyss for one episode? Okay, thought that was gonna be a lot longer. Well, I guess it has in the Outside World but *shrugs*.
-The Soundtrack was ON POINT this episode; ‘Will’ playing at the very end was great.
-Bloody Rabbit/Alice is fun. Less fun when she’s explaining things, but still fun.
-Oz is walking around like he has a paper cut instead of a literal stab wound.
-Why do I feel like the whole Sharon trick was Alice trying to manipulate Oz? I mean I support it, but I’m curious if that’s gonna be a reveal in the future.
-Why does contracting involve the two of them making out.
-The comedy still feels very out of place.

-This show feels very fast-paced, and it makes a lot of the scenes feel pretty jarring.
-Most of this episode was exposition, but I’ll let it slide because it meant listening to Akira Ishida having fun.
-Okay, so they’re not telling Oz that ‘Raven’ is Gilbert, who’s like thirty now because . . . They don’t want to give him a heart attack I guess? But also it’s both blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes, and it’s just gonna result in a worse heart attack so why should it be some huge secret?
-Lol Gilbert putting the hat on Oz for no reason made me laugh. He’s got a ‘tired-guy’ energy I appreciate. All hail Kurogane 2.0!
-“We must recover Alice’s lost memories.” SO THIS LITERALLY IS JUST TSUBASA AGAIN HUH.
-Bloody Rabbit remains an absolute banger.
-YES! THEY’RE PLAYING THE MAIN THEME WOOHOO!
-Why don’t they just smash the watch to make the Chains stop showing up—oh, forget it.
-“HAHAHAHA WE’RE ALL MANIPULATING YOU” is Break’s character in a nutshell and I very much appreciate it.
-Haven’t said much about Sharon ‘cause she’s kinda boring.

-On this episode of Pandora Hearts, Akira Ishida makes it his personal mission to traumatize everybody!
-This might just be the funniest episode yet, and just about all of it is unintentional. ‘Raven’ is practically holding up a blaring red sign saying “HEY, OZ, I’M YOUR OLD BUDDY GILBERT!” And the little dense twerp still doesn’t realize it. The part where Oz literally thinks “hmm, this guy looks exactly like Gilbert . . . I wonder how my old friend is doing . . .” in complete earnestness had me in hysterics.
-The amount of coincidences in this episode is truly staggering.
-They explained the watch thing at least, so that was nice.
-Why is this show trying to be like a Bee-Train show. I truly don’t understand it.
-Alice is a lot more earnest than I was expecting, and I wish she was as unhinged as she was a few episodes ago. There’s character development and then there’s just rebooting.
-Solid soundtrack work as expected.
-I love the part where Gilbert just pulls out a Glock.

-Oh wow, Raven is Gilbert. Who could have ever seen this coming.
-On paper, this episode could have been a very effective tragedy, but it really is undercut by how colossally dense that Oz has been throughout this entire show.
-I like the part where he’s reminiscing about his days with Gilbert and Alice looks him in the face with a huge grin and pretty much says “oh yeah. That kid Didn’t you nearly kill him?” Still not a fan of how her character is progressing, but that is a good moment.
-Yeah most of this episode was just angsting about a reveal that was already obvious, so there’s not much to talk about.

-Once again not much to talk about.
-The second half was much less interesting than the first. I guess it was supposed to be ‘emotional’, but I’m still not that invested in Alice’s backstory.
-Honestly, I really did like the part where Gilbert basically admitted that he wanted to abandon who he was because shoving everything behind him was the only way he could handle everything. It was really well-done, even if the whole identity ‘reveal’ made me roll my eyes.
-Soundtrack really does have some great guitar arrangements.

-Okay, that might have been the best episode yet.
-I’ve not been into the show’s humor before, but everything about Akira Ishida crashing into Gilbert’s apartment was a blast. Comedic sociopathy mixed with a VA having a great time is a great combination.
-The scene where Alice manipulates Gilbert into buying her meat was fun for similar reasons. Plus it doubles as a great showcase of their varying levels of class consciousness.
-“Tell me everything about Oz so I can make fun of him more.” MORE OF THIS ALICE PLEASE.
-I’ve had my criticisms of Oz, but the axe in the alleyway scene was unhinged and made me laugh. If he keeps this up, he may just win me over . . .
-The clock ticking scene felt very well-directed (to me at least).
-Okay it was kinda funny that Gilbert told Alice not to talk about Oz’s parents, only for the random street kid to do it by accident.
-Curious about Oz’s Daddy Issues; hoping that gets explained next episode.
-Okay *enough* with the miscommunication trope, it makes me want to bang my head against a wall.
-A bit sad that the flute version of Bloody Rabbit looks like it’s unreleased. At least “Wrapped In Darkness” also uses the motif, so that makes me happy.

-The music was on point this episode. Especially with Crush.
-Ah, okay, so the Dad’s basically Gendo Ikari. Checks out.
-Where did Oz get that dog collar lol.
-Forgot to shout out the art department last episode on Break’s facial expressions, ‘cause they’re great. I also like how they make child-Gilbert look very concerned at all times.
-That sax solo was killer.
-Always nice to hear Bloody Rabbit again.
-Well that was a lot of family drama.

-Okay, I found this episode kind of boring, so I don’t think I’ll have much to talk about.
-The whole Grim thing just dragged on and on, and I didn’t find it particularly investing.
-The parallel between Oz and the kid did make a lot of sense.
-YEAH AKIRA ISHIDA! YOU TELL HIM!

-I much preferred this to the last episode.
-Yes, Gilbert is very much an Edgelord with a capital E but he’s interesting and reminds me a lot of Kurogane so I don’t mind much.
-I love how Break essentially corners a traumatized kid in the woods, offers him candy, and tells him to join the noble equivalent of the mob. Best character by a landslide.
-The scene with the door and the raven lit up the Madoka part of my brain, which felt bizarre as none of the other Abyss scenes have done that so far. But also I like Madoka so no complaints from me, haha.
-The joke with Oz and Alice falling asleep by the end of Gilbert’s *dark* and *tortured* story made me laugh out loud.
-Oscar looks a lot like Hohenheim from FMA, so I snort a bit whenever he comes on screen.
-The soundtrack sounds great (as usual), and I’m gaining more of an appreciation for it with each passing episode.

-The first half was amazing, the second was ehhhhhhh.
-The fact that this entire episode is kickstarted by Gilbert wanting to get his hat back is great.
-The explanation about why they’re doing the arm wrestling is hilariously directed, and okay Oz is starting to win me over. Sometimes.
-The reunion with Oscar was cute.
-YEAH ALICE SHOW THEM WHO’S BOSS!
-Awwwwww and then the scene where she’s got the apples and she’s so excited to share them with her friends, only to get jealous and not know how to process it? Where she essentially thinks “I’ve been alone my whole life. Why would this be any different? Why should I even bother to make friends when, someday, this journey’s going to end, and they’re just going to leave me?” I really felt that; great job, Jun Mochizuki.
-Yeah after that it just kind of turns into the whole memory deal and I just don’t care about that. But like I said, the first half was great!

-Well most of this episode had me bored out of my mind, so once again there’s not much to talk about.
-Gilbert somehow not comprehending that the Cheshire Cat was a cat was bonkers. In a good way, but still bonkers.
-We finally know the other blonde-guy’s name is Jack, so that’s good.
-Vincent talks and I fall asleep.
-So 100 years ago a city got nuked to the Abyss and something something five doors something something Baskervilles and the four great houses something something.
-I think I got all of the important information but I was not particularly riveted.

-Well those were certainly some explanations. Too many, if you ask me.
-Yeah, this episode was a bit of a mess presentation-wise. It really did feel like everything was being crammed into one place, which made it more difficult to process the reveals.
-BOOOOOO WHY DID THEY CUT AWAY FROM BREAK BEING AWESOME BOOOOOOOOOO.
-“Alice is like the sun” is an interesting comparison. To be honest, she reminds me a lot more of the moon.
-‘PREPARATION’ PLAYED LET’S GO!!!!!!
-FOLLOWED BY ‘WILL’? OH YEAH!
-Not that big of a fan of Kappei Yamaguchi’s performance as the Cat; his screeches last episode were okay, but the normal voice is just grating.
-Well that explains a lot of Vincent’s issues.
-New ED! Don’t care much for it, but I like it more than the last one.

-Calling it now: Jack killed Alice and that’s the reason he’s in her memories.
-BREAK FIGHT YES YES YES!
-Jack being like “oh great, Oz is causing problems” when he’s literally at fault here was pretty great.
-Me when Gilbert was trying to get through to Oz: “JUST BRIGHT SLAP HIM!”
-One minute later: Gilbert does exactly that (KNEW YOU WOULDN’T LET ME DOWN, BUDDY!)
-Oz keeps trying to solve things peacefully and Break just barges in and says “okay but violence tho.”
-NO DON’T TRAP THE TWO BEST CHARACTERS IN THE DIMENSION! Actually that would make a pretty good sitcom plot.
-Actually I’m now counting Gilbert’s Glock as a character, so it’s actually the three best characters trapped together. Even better.
-And Oz is about to cause an international incident; fun times!

-Awww, they’re already out of the dimension? That took like two minutes! I was getting really attached to my hypothetical sitcom plot too . . .
-Also Jack makes a very long speech and it is exactly as boring as I expected it to be.
-Break’s scenes were fun at least but most of this episode was a huge slog. Why is this show so inconsistent?

-OMG THEY PLAYED MY FAVORITE SONG FROM THE OST AT THE START!!! AND IT WAS FOR BREAK TOO!!!! Yeah it was only the beginning of “A Shadow” but if they ever play the flute duet section I will be completely overjoyed.
-Break’s parts of the episode were great. It’s interesting to see how he got to know both Sharon and Glasses-Dude.
-Vincent’s a terrible person, which isn’t surprising. The part where Echo caught the antidote actually caught me off guard and was adorable.
-DON’T GET MAD AT BREAK, SHARON, HE’S THE ONLY ONE BOTHERING TO GET THINGS DONE!
-The Ada section of this episode was a bit predictable, but I do like how they explored the awkwardness of Oz’s reunion with her. And they touch a bit on her grieving process as well, which was nice.
-Oscar why did you think sneaking into the school like that was in any way a good idea.
-Cliffhanger time!

-This episode felt unbearably trope-y; if I wanted to watch a school anime then I’d just do that.
-Cool hearing Megumi Toyoguchi, even if the character she plays is awful.
-Hirofumi Nojima does a good job as Eliot, too.
-The book comparisons got on my nerves by the end.
-No, show, you can’t just play Preparation and expect me to care about what’s happening without bothering to earn it.
-Eliot pulling out the sword reminded me a lot of Break. Man, I miss Break. He’s been gone for only one episode but I still miss him.

-Boring.
-Everyone I like is out of focus.
-I have to listen to Jack make another speech.
-Lottie is annoying.
-Everytime You Kissed Me is a very good song, and I’m very excited for when the vocal version will inevitably play. But that’s the only good thing I can really say.

-This episode was a nice change of pace!
-I really liked the lighting in the sunset scene; it looked quite nice.
-This is the most personality Sharon has ever had and I very much appreciate it.
-Hfhjfjfhfhfhh Oscar don’t bring the alcohol.
-Half of this show really is just Tsubasa lol.
-Gilbert is a disaster drunk and I love it.
-Sharon trying to teach Alice about romance was hilarious.
-Break being self-destructive; we love to see it!
-Always nice to hear ‘Gravel’.
-The use of Lacie at the end was so creepy and I love it.
-Well, Oz, maybe you’d already know more about Gilbert’s past if you hadn’t fallen asleep during his flashback episode xD.
-This whole thing felt like a fever dream but it was a lot of fun.

-This entire show can be summed up as “What if the cast of Tsubasa decided to sit around in a circle and take a bunch of LSD?”
-Anyways this episode was an absolute blast. Perfect mix of absurdity and angst.
-I found it funny when the one guy turned out to be a bishie boy; never change, Mochizuki.
-Loved hearing “Alone” again.
-Okay, even as a Main Theme defender, its use here felt really out of place.
-A lot of reveals going on here, and they’re very trippy.
-I really like the way that this show examines the concept of time itself.
-THEY PLAYED ‘A SHADOW’ FOR BREAK AGAIN AHHHHHHHHHHHH AND MY FAVORITE PART HAPPENED THIS TIME!!!!!
-Oh now that was a great way to use a cliffhanger.

-Another solid episode!
-Some of the reveals felt a tad confusing but I think that might have been the point. Or just an adaptational issue. Who knows.
-This episode has Oz’s best moment so far and it’s not even close.
-Okay this whole thing with Alice is *very* Kara no Kyoukai.
-I’ve already said that Break’s my favorite but honestly I still can’t really say it enough.
-Gilbert just heard all of that acid-trip and went “what.” Still as relatable as ever.
-That was a nice ending!

-And here comes the anime-original finale episodes!
-Why did no one get the idea to just bang Gilbert’s head into the ground until he remembered? That seems like a great idea.
-Honestly thought Oz was going to ask Gilbert to stab him again to see if the Baskervilles showed up. You know, just like old times.
-Uhh what else happened.
-Kinda silly that Ada asking Oz to go shopping with her was what got him to open the music box.
-Alice gets to beat people up! Also couldn’t they have just jumped in the abyss hole from where she shoved the monsters—oh, forget it.
-Also, they could have just gotten Oz’s circle to move like ten more times so they could go on an Abyss field-trip. Probably wouldn’t be as easy to get out of it, but none of these characters have much foresight, haha.
-Break: “Why can’t we just go to the Abyss again?” Sharon: “Read the manga.”
-Oz: “Hey, Gilbert, what happened to you during those ten years?” Gilbert: “Read the manga.”
-And everything’s on fire! Huzzah!

-This episode had some nice colors. I especially liked the scene where they were sitting around the fire.
-The fact that they said “Abyss” and “Alice” so many times made me wonder if they were intended to rhyme to show their connection.
-Break telling Oz not be so self-sacrificial was delightfully hypocritical.
-Dang, Oz, that was one lucky shot to the head you got on that guy.
-Awww, they don’t even get a giant, creepy dragon statue out of the deal? Living in that town must really suck.
-What even is there to do next episode? Pull an Eva and talk about Oz’s Daddy Issues?

-So I *was* right! MUAHAHAHAHA.
-Uhh so that was an odd episode.
-The fact that they’ve been crashing at Sharon’s place oddly reminded me that Gilbert’s apartment exists. What happened to it? Is he still paying rent?
-So according to this at least, Oz’s dad was the one who threw him into the Abyss? Man, he’s a lot more like Gendo than I thought.
-Break still gets some laughs out of me. All hail Break.
-Him and Alice wanting to kill Bargain Bin Gendo while Gilbert facepalms was amazing.
-I love Everytime You Kissed Me, but I do wish it was implemented better here. I could barely focus on what was happening.
-Oz’s Dad showed up for like two seconds and everyone was like “Welp, we’re off to new adventures.”
-I do appreciate how the show started and ended at Oz’s house. Nice little bookends, even if the episode itself was lacking.

And that’s a wrap! I’ll probably post my final thoughts at some point tomorrow.
 
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Funny reading different takeaways than I think some of mine were. XD

Maybe I fell asleep/dozed off on some of the show so feel free to correct me if something's off.

(hidden spoilers as of ep#10:)

Like, _I_ didn't really care about what happened to Ada, I was on the character & plot discovery train and was more surprised Oz himself didn't seem to care that much about Ada or what happened (after Break/Sharon saying they're all doing fine and recommending staying hidden). But then even that is later addressed with Oz having a selfimposed character trait of taking everything as it comes (which we know is BS because trauma and daddy issues but it's enough of an explanation for me... for now...).

I didn't think of Oz as being (portrayed as) dense that much, with the exception of ep5 maybe (or was it 6), when the show kept hammering us with Oz's questioning of how the castle looks. Everything else from Oz (as of #10) seems relatively sane and realized animu character to me (maybe surprisingly so). He was a sheltered 15yo aristocrat living in the middle of fuck nowhere with a few people (& having the character trait from above). He processes everything as it comes. Raven's identity is painfully obvious to us but why should it be to Oz? He thinks he was gone for only a minute - Sharon & Break don't look any different and recommend to stay hidden. Why would he think it's been years in the real world. Beyond that he's not falling that far behind on Break's personal manipulations or teasing - he snaps back. He knows he's important to everyone for ?reasons? and is taking advantage of that to work through everything at his pace.

Now me kind of defending Oz isn't me defending the general writing/storytelling... lul. Raven being Gil (while also mostly acting like an adult Gilbert would) is not surprising, sure, but the show does not provide much else for the viewer to hang onto or be distracted with... Thankfully it's a done deal after ep6 - they could've spent most of the show on it, lol. And again, to heck with all these flashbacks/recaps.

I would defend a lot of the comedy but I also realize it's subjective. For me, the general comedy timing, Raven x Alice bickering and Break x World trolling works (including the simplified cutaways). Same on Vanitas.

I do not relate to your excitement for "Pandora hearts" (the BGM). XD It's a cool sounding theme for sure, but one that has little to no melody or staying power for me. I also can't consider it the "main theme". I don't think it's used anywhere else in the OST and to me the show seems to be using it mostly as a theme for Pandora (the organization) and/or Break. And I'll say it again, both times (I believe it was 2 as of ep#10) that "Pandora hearts" was used, it was obnoxiously distracting from Break's speeches (maybe an instrumental version would've worked better).

The one thing that I think we will agree on: Akira Ishida gets the best characters. Even if typecast.
pandora_break10.jpg
 
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grunty said:
Raven's identity is painfully obvious to us but why should it be to Oz? He thinks he was gone for only a minute - Sharon & Break don't look any different and recommend to stay hidden. Why would he think it's been years in the real world. Beyond that he's not falling that far behind on Break's personal manipulations or teasing - he snaps back. He knows he's important to everyone for ?reasons? and is taking advantage of that to work through everything at his pace.
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You know what, that’s fair. Sharon and Break looking the same was something I didn’t consider. I think it’s more so just me being frustrated at the miscommunication trope than Oz’s actions, but that’s just a personal grievance. You do a very good job analyzing Oz’s actions as well. Also, I agree that it’s a good thing it only lasts a few episodes.
grunty said:
I do not relate to your excitement for "Pandora hearts" (the BGM). XD It's a cool sounding theme for sure, but one that has little to no melody or staying power for me. I also can't consider it the "main theme". I don't think it's used anywhere else in the OST and to me the show seems to be using it mostly as a theme for Pandora (the organization) and/or Break. And I'll say it again, both times (I believe it was 2 as of ep#10) that "Pandora hearts" was used, it was obnoxiously distracting from Break's speeches (maybe an instrumental version would've worked better).
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I do get what you mean about it being distracting; I keep having a hard time paying attention to Break’s expositon whenever it plays. I think what I personally like about it is the electronic arrangement combined with the forceful vocals. Back when I first listened to the OST, it was one that I very distinctly remembered so I have a soft spot for it.
grunty said:
The one thing that I think we will agree on: Akira Ishida gets the best characters. Even if typecast.
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Absolutely!

I really like talking about shows, and I don’t get much of an opportunity to do so in real life. So I really enjoy reading others’ thoughts in this thread, alongside posting my own. Last time I really did that was in the Magia Record thread (lol . . . Those were the days), and I like to think I’ve gotten more comfortable posting here since then. Also, for all of my complaints, this show is twenty times better than that one ended up as, so 🤣.
 
Finished PH#13 and I'm so conflicted about this show. I both want to know what's going on (descendants? ascendants? was something changed in the past already? is that even true or is it BS? why should we care about the Will of Abyss? what is it? is it Alice? what does it matter?) and also don't care.

Like why should I care what happened to Alice? Just 'cuz Oz wants to help her and she's one of the MCs?
Why should I care that Break (or anyone) is interested in what happened 100y ago (beyond me liking the troll)? Maybe others do, I don't lol. The constant flashbacking to Break explaining Alice's last memory we saw might've been 100y ago implying it's a big deal was complete whocares? nonsense to me.

To me it feels the show is more interested in webbing mysteries, halfassed cryptic dialogues and traumas than compelling characters and story.
I'm getting Vanitas anime s1 flashbacks, where I felt there's a good story there but it needed an overhaul to make me invested in the characters & the world before any mysteries start unraveling ('cause I did not much like Vanitas or care for human/vampire worlds). Both shows need a beach episode or two, without any of the trauma & mystery.

Other than that, #11-13 were pretty gud - I didn't fall asleep. I just wish I cared more.

PS.
Oh yea, how old is Echo supposed to be again? Is Vincent supposed to come across as a creep?
 
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grunty said:
. Both shows need a beach episode or two, without any of the trauma & mystery.
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Lol 🤣 sadly due to the overall political situation ecchi anime and beach episodes are out of fashion 😅 But yea this creator's characters are rather weird, and too much flashbacks in anime means lack of new idea and also assume the audience to have very short memory which isnt true.
 
It doesn't have to be anything sexualized (of which there's a plenty, even more so in Vanitas). Make me spend time with your characters, try to make me care without mysteries. Instead we just go from one cryptic exposition dump to another melodramatic trauma with a few comedic cutaways inbetween. Maybe that's not enough. Obviously I realize that it's easier said than done. Clearly many people cared about PH at the time of the adaptation already... so it could be me not buying into the fantasy for some reason.

A lot of revelations in PH#14 are cool on paper but I just feel nothing about them. They happen. They don't feel like payoffs to anything I was supposed to care about.

It could be PH as a whole, it could be just the anime or it could be just me.
 
^ i dont remember caring much about it back then either, i mostly cared about the music *_* and that original anime ending ruined it for good. Still buthurt that heavy piano version of melodie is still unreleased.
 
Done with #17. The show is so much better to me now that we see characters interact, rather than just drop cryptic exposition and tease secrets.

Bahahha @ spoiler in #18. This arc feels like we're in a completely different show, lol. TBH I was expecting Elliot to turn out to be a Baskerville for a different villain dynamic... but no, just another Nightray and counterpart to Oz x Gil...

@#19 I don't mind a school arc. If it were one... lul. Did 15yo Oz need a different perspective? Sure. Is it cheesy & preachy no matter the outlook on life? Ya... The Baskerville drama... eh. I still don't care about what happened 100y ago. Jack is boring. I'm guessing the show is "building" toward Oz vs Gil, based on the Jack vs Glen flashbacks. Or maybe more selfsacrifice drama.

PS. The amount of underground/hidden passages all these fancy places have to avoid (animating & writing) folk & interruptions... wow... But I guess in this case Ada did say it was already after hours... And same for empty city nights in earlier episodes...

@20 Sharon's Maiden "but I heard it's a bittersweet/wonderful thing" bit would be funny to me if she weren't supposed to be much older than she looks... Or is the joke that she's forced to be 4everinnocent, 'cause she looks like a minor. Da fuq with these ages? If Oz is "25" then Gil is "124" not "24"... I know it's a liquor comedy bit but still. It's interesting we're getting these kind of episodes NOW and not before the Cheshire arc... (Even if this is still not even a quarter into the manga... Assuming this is even from the manga. I see there's still more manga chapter titles in the anime.)

@21 "Pandora hearts" might just be the worst BGM used in this show. He doesn't seem like a Kevin... lol. What in the convergence? lol. So it is all connected because Abyss Time Zone is Everything. Great. Or just lazy/brilliant writing idea that you can do anything with.

@22 Okay, so Vincent is a complete douche. We been knew. This is all great and fun revelations, but somehow they don't really mean much other than moar mystery & questions... more mystery edging, rather than something satisfying. Sux for me to wait for another adaptation. lolOz, go off, Hero. Comrades. Kay, so the past was changed. Butterfly effect. Dundundun. BUT WHAT IS HER WISH? See Jack again? Find out who killed the twin upstairs? Don't make me rewatch the show from the start lol... I guess this is where the manga adaptation ends and goes all Anime original.

I still don't remember hearing "Contractor" lol.

What I want & probably won't get from the anime finale
(assuming it didn't get already addressed in the show but I somehow missed it/dozed off, lul):
What's the deal with Vincent/Gil in Sablier? How are they related to any characters/families? Are they just Baskervilles?
What does Vincent want with the Will of Abyss anyways?
What's the deal with Will/Alice? Are they two physical entities or multiple personalities in one entity? How did one twin get out of the Abyss pre-Sablier? Is anything even true?
Why did Glen give the order?
When and how did the Reapers get out of the Abyss? I presume they were stuck in it post-Sablier. Or they have long made contracts that made them stop aging too...?
Is there timeloop shenanigans in addition to/or rather than/ changing the past? The Reapers said something about Jack killing Glen and them finding their Lord "over and over again" in the school basement.
What's the deal with the silent clock during Oz's ceremony?
Why is Oz not allowed to be in this world? Just because he's a vessel for Jack? Why is his existence his sin? Is it more than just Reaper mumbojumbo?
How long has Abyss even been a thing in this universe?

I'm sure there's more to Break's story and purpose but other than not knowing Will's wish, I'm satisfied with what they revealed for Break in the animu.

I hope to watch the final 3 eps tomorrow.

BTW I looked at some manga previews on amazon and the show seems almost a shot 4 shot adaptation... v( '')v
Mochizuki's art is very pretty & cute & detailed, definitely moreso than the show.

Edit:
Finally watched #23-25.
Dafuq was that? I'm going to presume this was all anime original.
#23-24 were total ass on every level - writing & direction & production. The first half of #25 was kind of okayish and closer to the rest of the show (do wonder if the revelation is supposed to be canon - anime ep2 certainly makes it seem that way, as do ep2 parallels to ep7 flashbacks; issue remains as with most other revelations in this show - I never cared, lol. And I still don't.) but then it went to hell in its 2nd half. Feels like a rushed extended tease for things to come in the manga. Ass.
As far as I'm concerned they could've ended it on #22 arc for more impact. While we're at it - why not actually make the whole anime from Break's POV? :p

I don't know if this Papa deal is canon and how the manga handles it, but looking back at ep2 with Gil's "He is your..." warning to not attack the hooded person (which I frankly did not even remember until rewatching the scene right now; makes me feel a little dumb, but I guess the show not reminding viewers of certain scenes is also on purpose), it is frustrating that we had to wait 24 episodes for them to go back to it and Gil is still like ~Oz, don't connect the dots!~ (paraphrasing) to protect his feelings. Everyone in the show is determined to keep the viewers and Oz in the dark until the writers decide otherwise... It's hard to care.

tldr: would I be interested in watching a more faithful complete adaptation? Maybe, because I got through so much of it through this version that I think I would enjoy some answers.
Would I be excited about re-watching the portion of the manga that they had already adapted? Not really... This anime's really been an excercise in waiting for the writer to give you a glimpse into how everything has been webbed in the "past", rather than me being interested in any ongoing story or its characters. Maybe a different director could make it less boring... Or maybe me having an idea of how this quarter of the story goes would make it more interesting/involving on re-watch... I'll probably never know. XD

I think I've also come to the conclusion that the multiple ways of people retaining their apperance (coming out of Abyss in a different era, certain Contractors not aging), non-linear Abyss timeflow and characters coming back to the "real world" from different pasts (like Break) all feel contrived & convoluted when the show is built around some 100yo+ story. It feels like you can do anything and nothing with it.
 
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Can someone explain to me Break's backstory (as of the PandoraHearts anime, or manga vol7~8 if it's different).

I was into it when it was being revealed in the show but the more I think about it, the more I don't think I get it, lol.

So long story short.
IF Kevin's Illegal Contract, murders & descent into Abyss were the result of the Sinclair family heads getting killed by burglars (-50 years to PresentTime(TM))...
IF Break returned from Abyss (-20 years) to a world where (per Break's words:) Sinclairs never got attacked by burglars (-50 years) but "some years later" got massacred by rival aristocrats (corroborated by Oz)...
HOW does Duke Barma know of Kevin's Illegal Contractor murders (-50 years)?

Is what I got the correct interpretation of this story and I'm just 2dum4it or is there more foul play/secrets to this part later? I am confyushion.

Does Barma have multiverse encyclopedias or did Kevin's same murders still happen in the world without the burglars' attack? Why? What kind of selective changes to the timeline are these?

Is PandoraHearts even about one timeline that is getting altered or are there multiple parallel timelines always in play with certain people/creatures tapping into them for an even more convoluted story than just time shenanigans? I bloody hate a multiverse...
 
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grunty said:
Does Barma have multiverse encyclopedias or did Kevin's same murders still happen in the world without the burglars' attack? Why? What kind of selective changes to the timeline are these?
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I think the implication is that he still left on the same date and did his spree in addition to them surviving. He wasn’t there to protect the daughter in the second timeline, so I think the Abyss just kind of left his role as it is when she brought the others back to life. I could be totally wrong, though.

All in all, I had a surprisingly fun time with this show by the end. It got me to appreciate the soundtrack a lot more (which is part of the goal of my watching project), and I might read the manga at some point. I also wouldn’t turn down a remake, but as won’t get my hopes up. But if they bring back both Kajiura and the voice cast, then I’m in. For all of this show’s faults, I found the main character dynamics to be quite fun and intriguing.

Also, thank you @grunty for joining me on this watching adventure. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your thoughts.

As for what’s next for me, I might rewatch Cossette in a few days. Next up on my Kajiura journey will be Vanitas, which I‘lol probably get to by the end of June. From the bits I have heard about it, I am . . . Skeptical. But PH proved me wrong, so you never know.
 
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