george1234
Moderator
Wasnt Remi in SH as well ? (But yea she isnt in FJ)
「Kalafina Anniversary LIVE 2025」15th January Tokyo Garden Theater (NO KAJIURA INVOLVEMENT)
- Thread starter Kugayama
- Start date
maha_gnosis
TETOTETOMETOME
it's amusing for me how many find Kalafina speciality is somehow harmonies. Back before the forming if kalafina/Live YK didnt have any group at all. Only Yuuka, some Kaori, some Keiko. And how I wished that they formed a group. Only to find out that I prefer solo singer since that way we can enjoy more of their voice fully. And I will get flamed for writing this:
I think a lot of Kalafina's songs can be sing for solo. I cant think any song in the moment that is like Kotonohoka Yawarakai. Which truly needs multiple singers. One Light maybe?
I think a lot of Kalafina's songs can be sing for solo. I cant think any song in the moment that is like Kotonohoka Yawarakai. Which truly needs multiple singers. One Light maybe?
A lot of their songs lol. But to name a few:
- Sprinter is probably the song with the most overlapping vocals, especially overlapping melody lines
- Aria - The 4-man live with Maya is still the best version of the song because there are 4 vocalists
- Eden - a very vocally demanding that absolutely drains your stamina if you're alternating between two lead vocalists (like seriously try singing Eden solo, it's a much harder song that you think)
- Hikari Furu with the section from "hakanasugite" onwards
- Signal - overlapping melody lines with Hikaru's Engrish and Wakana's siren wails
Keiko (and occasionally Hikaru) on lower harmony IS the "Kalafina sound" and is like 99% of the reason why the melody lines sound so much better than if they were sung solo all the time. Add to the fact that Kalafina's songs are much more vocally demanding than your average Jpop songs and you need 3 people on stage to last through a 22-song set list, which is also on average longer than most concerts that typically have 15-18 songs and usually have audiences singing along so artists do less work (insert Justin Timberlake memes here). You need a LOT of vocal stamina for Kajiura songs. Remember that one FJ live which was basically Kaori and her 3 backup singers? Yea she didn't sound so good by the end of that, and Kaori is already someone with incredible vocal stamina.
The intention when they first did lives according to Kajiura is to best recreate the studio sound on stage, which they quickly found impossible with just 3 vocalists (even with FJ and its 4 vocalists it's just not possible to do so live without a bigger ensemble, which Kajiura has learnt and thankfully incorporated more of in recent years).
tsubasa
Moderator
They performed an acoustic version of "Mune no Yukue" on Keiko's Special Live
https://youtu.be/7M5CvQPmJmw?t=3662
https://youtu.be/7M5CvQPmJmw?t=3662
maha_gnosis
TETOTETOMETOME
I mean where you can carry the main melody of those songs alone.
Sprinter ... true. Forgot about it. Although it has been done by maya alone.
Aria can also be done alone ( disregarding the overlapping 2nd verse)
After eden... havent heard about it for a while. Dunno.
Hikari furu, maybe... I feel like the overlapping section can be omitted.
Signal ... no, can be solo.
Anyway, I dont find anything interesting about lower harmony, nor I care much about live rendition actually. For me the main attraction of Kalafina is just YK's composition unfortunately. Of course vocal plays a role, but I will even like it if Oblivious came out with Lino Leia first
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CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
I hear your points, and I am in agreement with some of them, and have thoughts about others.
I will always highlight and emphasize the overall impact and creative spark of Kajiura as composer, lyricist, and arranger. When we look at her background, the fact that she grew up listening to mostly German (and other European) operas A LOT, together with classical and choral music, is the reason why she writes her group vocals primarily in that polyphonic style (and thus REQUIRES classical style singers in a lot of her music, or for her singers to adopt classical stylings for example in Kajiurago). No singer could inspire a composer that did not have that classical background to write the way Kajiura writes. It just can't happen, no matter how special their voice might be.
I have heard all the Kalafina ladies say in different videos that they initially struggled to adapt to Kajiura's musical requirements at the beginning because it was very different from what they were used to doing, and so she essentially took them into unexplored realms. We know Keiko was singing in a rock duo, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't doing long, legato low notes back then (maybe even struggling with her vocal identity as a contralto, as many of them do, trying to sing high to avoid having limited acceptance). It was Kajiura that pushed her into embracing (and having the chance to sing a lot in) her low range, and gave it a fundamental space in her permanently harmony-based group vocal arrangement, which we are all grateful for. Keiko had the voice naturally, but probably not the confidence or prolonged exposure to music that required that singing style to have explored them for herself, prior to working with Kajiura.
Kajiura has been going through phases in her career. She started primarily with the pop/rock band explorations, electronic work, and bits of classical with her compositions including with See-Saw because she also grew up with the Beatles and other Japanese and Western pop music, and she could explore those sounds starting with the band at school, singing basic harmonies with Chiaki who was projected as a powerful lead voice as happens in rock/pop, and this has also evolved over time into her work on Kalafina/FJ with FBM. Imagine if she had been at a conservatory like Yoko Kanno and studied classical music, we may have had a very different creative style from Kajiura.
With FJ Yuuka, she went more for the softly dramatic ballad stylings (which she continued with Wakana in Kalafina and FictionJunction), while simultaneously still doing pop, instrumental, and classical stuff (with Yuriko, Hanae, Remi, and so on). Of course before that after See-saw's breakup she explored with other singers like Emily, Deb, etc., doing electronic, ballad, classical and the band elements (with lots of strings!)
The story, plot, and themes of Kara no Kyoukai are what inspired Kajiura to write what she wrote for that show, as she then looked for singers who could bring out that feeling and apportioned the songs to them. Speaking of "Oblivious", the first thing we hear is Hikaru's kajiurago, then Keiko's kajiurago line, then Hanae Tomaru's voice singing the haunting refrain (which is repeated multiple times in the song), before Wakana come in with the verse. I am sure Hanae's part is an emotional refrain in the song; Hikaru also sings it later on (while it plays in the background).
Let's also not forget that Kajiura hears everything in her mind before writing it down. She is not co-creating the melodies in the studio with any of the ladies. She hears the main melody and develops it over time, adding layers and development. She hears the vocal parts and suitable vocal tones/colors and writes for them in specific ways (not the standard chords, sometimes extended chords or transposed), which is why she oftentimes required Yuriko to mirror Keiko, often singing the same thing as Keiko at the same time an octave apart). The ladies may suggest some tempo or other dynamics with the instrumentalists (as we've seen in rehearsal videos) but they don't change what was composed.
The singers don't create their melodies. They sing what is written by Kajiura on the music sheet and can of course interpret as they feel depending on their emotive evolution or musicality (that varies from singer to singer). If a singer rashly changes the melody on the page, it can clash with what the rest of the instrumentation is doing, so that still comes down to arrangement skill.
So, I am definitely not diminishing the qualities of Hikaru, Keiko, or Wakana, as singers and performers. The group is what it was vocally and visually because of their voices, personalities and vocal/stage performances, but the songs, music styles, name of the group, and the stories told exist because Kajiura created them (as her interpretation of the anime stories she read) and the FBM played them they way they did. I rarely hear FBM get their props really in the fandom, case in point was I saw Kalafina fans on other blogs saying the Kalafina anniversary band was better, even when it was obvious that the removal of Korenaga's signature solos in some songs and Akagi Rie's sonorous flute accompaniment was a glaring miss. They are sometimes described as if they're just replaceable session musicians which diminishes the impact of their absence, but that's another topic for another day.
Truth be told, the only vocalists that have worked with Kajiura that I can really praise as having strong creative melodic chops (and so could currently have had a back-and-forth with Kajiura if they were in a collaborative melodic writing sessions), are (i) CHIAKI ISHIKAWA, who though started with just singing Kajiura's music, has gone on to write and perform many, complex vocal melodies and harmonies in her own solo work, and written powerhouse songs for other artists, e.g. JUNNA, and let's not forget (ii) KOKIA, who is also a respected composer herself (also having classical/opera background) and writes really unique melodies and complex harmonies. In fact, KOKIA's songs from Kajiura are often tame in complexity compared to her own work. I hope Kajiura writes something epic for KOKIA's mature vocal sensibilities, soon.
They've shown the ability to do it all the most from every singer I've seen work with Kajiura.
This is undeniable. They have those unique vocal qualities and expressive abilities and have demonstrated them again and again, most successfully, in my opinion, to Kajiura's music.
I will always highlight and emphasize the overall impact and creative spark of Kajiura as composer, lyricist, and arranger. When we look at her background, the fact that she grew up listening to mostly German (and other European) operas A LOT, together with classical and choral music, is the reason why she writes her group vocals primarily in that polyphonic style (and thus REQUIRES classical style singers in a lot of her music, or for her singers to adopt classical stylings for example in Kajiurago). No singer could inspire a composer that did not have that classical background to write the way Kajiura writes. It just can't happen, no matter how special their voice might be.
I have heard all the Kalafina ladies say in different videos that they initially struggled to adapt to Kajiura's musical requirements at the beginning because it was very different from what they were used to doing, and so she essentially took them into unexplored realms. We know Keiko was singing in a rock duo, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't doing long, legato low notes back then (maybe even struggling with her vocal identity as a contralto, as many of them do, trying to sing high to avoid having limited acceptance). It was Kajiura that pushed her into embracing (and having the chance to sing a lot in) her low range, and gave it a fundamental space in her permanently harmony-based group vocal arrangement, which we are all grateful for. Keiko had the voice naturally, but probably not the confidence or prolonged exposure to music that required that singing style to have explored them for herself, prior to working with Kajiura.
Kajiura has been going through phases in her career. She started primarily with the pop/rock band explorations, electronic work, and bits of classical with her compositions including with See-Saw because she also grew up with the Beatles and other Japanese and Western pop music, and she could explore those sounds starting with the band at school, singing basic harmonies with Chiaki who was projected as a powerful lead voice as happens in rock/pop, and this has also evolved over time into her work on Kalafina/FJ with FBM. Imagine if she had been at a conservatory like Yoko Kanno and studied classical music, we may have had a very different creative style from Kajiura.
With FJ Yuuka, she went more for the softly dramatic ballad stylings (which she continued with Wakana in Kalafina and FictionJunction), while simultaneously still doing pop, instrumental, and classical stuff (with Yuriko, Hanae, Remi, and so on). Of course before that after See-saw's breakup she explored with other singers like Emily, Deb, etc., doing electronic, ballad, classical and the band elements (with lots of strings!)
The story, plot, and themes of Kara no Kyoukai are what inspired Kajiura to write what she wrote for that show, as she then looked for singers who could bring out that feeling and apportioned the songs to them. Speaking of "Oblivious", the first thing we hear is Hikaru's kajiurago, then Keiko's kajiurago line, then Hanae Tomaru's voice singing the haunting refrain (which is repeated multiple times in the song), before Wakana come in with the verse. I am sure Hanae's part is an emotional refrain in the song; Hikaru also sings it later on (while it plays in the background).
Let's also not forget that Kajiura hears everything in her mind before writing it down. She is not co-creating the melodies in the studio with any of the ladies. She hears the main melody and develops it over time, adding layers and development. She hears the vocal parts and suitable vocal tones/colors and writes for them in specific ways (not the standard chords, sometimes extended chords or transposed), which is why she oftentimes required Yuriko to mirror Keiko, often singing the same thing as Keiko at the same time an octave apart). The ladies may suggest some tempo or other dynamics with the instrumentalists (as we've seen in rehearsal videos) but they don't change what was composed.
The singers don't create their melodies. They sing what is written by Kajiura on the music sheet and can of course interpret as they feel depending on their emotive evolution or musicality (that varies from singer to singer). If a singer rashly changes the melody on the page, it can clash with what the rest of the instrumentation is doing, so that still comes down to arrangement skill.
So, I am definitely not diminishing the qualities of Hikaru, Keiko, or Wakana, as singers and performers. The group is what it was vocally and visually because of their voices, personalities and vocal/stage performances, but the songs, music styles, name of the group, and the stories told exist because Kajiura created them (as her interpretation of the anime stories she read) and the FBM played them they way they did. I rarely hear FBM get their props really in the fandom, case in point was I saw Kalafina fans on other blogs saying the Kalafina anniversary band was better, even when it was obvious that the removal of Korenaga's signature solos in some songs and Akagi Rie's sonorous flute accompaniment was a glaring miss. They are sometimes described as if they're just replaceable session musicians which diminishes the impact of their absence, but that's another topic for another day.
Truth be told, the only vocalists that have worked with Kajiura that I can really praise as having strong creative melodic chops (and so could currently have had a back-and-forth with Kajiura if they were in a collaborative melodic writing sessions), are (i) CHIAKI ISHIKAWA, who though started with just singing Kajiura's music, has gone on to write and perform many, complex vocal melodies and harmonies in her own solo work, and written powerhouse songs for other artists, e.g. JUNNA, and let's not forget (ii) KOKIA, who is also a respected composer herself (also having classical/opera background) and writes really unique melodies and complex harmonies. In fact, KOKIA's songs from Kajiura are often tame in complexity compared to her own work. I hope Kajiura writes something epic for KOKIA's mature vocal sensibilities, soon.
They've shown the ability to do it all the most from every singer I've seen work with Kajiura.
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
I second and THIRD this! The video is also my favourite because of the energy of the ladies during the kajiurago section with their dancing and smiling. It was just an irreplaceable performance of the song.
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
I am imagining if Kajiura was to write brand-new music for Kalafina, how would she do the harmony arrangement? Would she write more for Hikaru doing low harmonies and have Keiko pop into the middle position more?
Of course, Keiko would also switch back to low for areas that are too low for Hikaru to comfortably sing. This means, Wakana would need to do all the high notes, meaning the keys might need to drop a couple of semitones lower than Kajiura would have written for them in the past.
Of course, Keiko would also switch back to low for areas that are too low for Hikaru to comfortably sing. This means, Wakana would need to do all the high notes, meaning the keys might need to drop a couple of semitones lower than Kajiura would have written for them in the past.
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
When did Kalafina first start to use the "Maiyaiya!" Pre-show chant? Does anyone know at which live this started?
george1234
Moderator
^ I dont even remember but to me itssounds like the Kajiurago from Aria's bridge ^^;
Lorde-Kowz
I have reached Yuki nirvana
It's the final word of the Ongaku chant.
After Eden I think?
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
I see, thanks.
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
KEIKO STAFF
@KeikoStaff
Translated from Japanese by Grok
Thank you for watching! ＼(^o^)／ Thank you for spending the 50th Keiko Room with me. Please enjoy the archive as well.
KEIKO
@KeikoStaff
Translated from Japanese by Grok
Thank you for watching! ＼(^o^)／ Thank you for spending the 50th Keiko Room with me. Please enjoy the archive as well.
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
A question came to mind:
Which of the Kalafina ladies voices do you think would fit with Sawano's music? If he had to choose one of them for a new song.
Which of the Kalafina ladies voices do you think would fit with Sawano's music? If he had to choose one of them for a new song.
george1234
Moderator
I d say Keiko or Hikaru. He always has some who sound like Wakana.
toshiroukajiura
I like Yuki
Keiko or Hikaru has the best voice for anisongs.
However, Hikaru’s best voice is 2008-2012 era. That metalic pipe-like voice is something I miss a lot. Somehow reminds me of Rito’s voice. Hikaru’s voice right now is best in singing Keiko range songs.
Surprisingly Keiko is the one that sing more stable than the other girls. However, she still has to sound cutesy or belt/more like yelling to reach the high notes.
This is where EMIKO shines for me, versatility.
I love Wakana. Wakana’s is one of Yuki Kajiura’s charm in her songs. However, I know some may hate me, but I don’t like Wakana’s voice now. Whoever voice trained her after Kajiura left just didn’t do a good job
She sounds like a goat sometimes because she can’t control vibrato. Admit it or not, Kajiura knows how to utilize their voices well. In some behind the scenes, you can see how careful Yuki Kajiura is in guiding Kalafina vocally.
Individually, they can’t really stand out in the Anisong industry. Sad but true. However, Kajiura can easily produce songs that are tailored well to their voices. Let’s hear what the new Kalafina has to offer. But in the unedited and raw sound of the recent Kalafina comeback, boy oh boy, they don’t sound great I am speaking musically of course. They sound good. But you what I mean. Ahahahahaha
However, Hikaru’s best voice is 2008-2012 era. That metalic pipe-like voice is something I miss a lot. Somehow reminds me of Rito’s voice. Hikaru’s voice right now is best in singing Keiko range songs.
Surprisingly Keiko is the one that sing more stable than the other girls. However, she still has to sound cutesy or belt/more like yelling to reach the high notes.
This is where EMIKO shines for me, versatility.
I love Wakana. Wakana’s is one of Yuki Kajiura’s charm in her songs. However, I know some may hate me, but I don’t like Wakana’s voice now. Whoever voice trained her after Kajiura left just didn’t do a good job
She sounds like a goat sometimes because she can’t control vibrato. Admit it or not, Kajiura knows how to utilize their voices well. In some behind the scenes, you can see how careful Yuki Kajiura is in guiding Kalafina vocally. Individually, they can’t really stand out in the Anisong industry. Sad but true. However, Kajiura can easily produce songs that are tailored well to their voices. Let’s hear what the new Kalafina has to offer. But in the unedited and raw sound of the recent Kalafina comeback, boy oh boy, they don’t sound great
I am speaking musically of course. They sound good. But you what I mean. AhahahahahaMy first reaction would be none of them tbh. It's just that Sawano's repertoire is a different kind of game in most occasions. I love Keiko only for the fact that it has created appreciation for deep and low registers for many people where normally for women many treat singing as who hits the higher notes, but her voice outside those rangers doesn't stand out a lot. Hikaru is very expressive on her singing so I think that is a huge bonus for her vs the others but I don't know if the Sawano style is for her. And Wakana outside her voice issues and changes, would need very specific kinds of song that I don't see Sawano doing.
Agreeing a bit with Toshiro, Emiko is an example of the kind of singer that Sawano likes to use. There's a few songs where he uses more "delicate" female singers, but seems to have more of a preference of a powerful voice.
Agreeing a bit with Toshiro, Emiko is an example of the kind of singer that Sawano likes to use. There's a few songs where he uses more "delicate" female singers, but seems to have more of a preference of a powerful voice.
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
Interesting.
Can you think of an existing Sawano song that Keiko would be suitable to lead and embody, and same for Hikaru? Maybe English language lyrics or Japanese.
george1234
Moderator
I havent deep dive into his music but from what i have heard H n K are more suitable. Maybe Wakana for his Aldnoah songs would fit anything similar to the etherial / dramatic songs she used to sing as Kalafina.
CloisteredFlame
Burn my house just to see her...
Yeah she really sounded quite unique, but her voice was still developing. When I think of her eventual dramatic type, right now I think vocal music like Aurora's would have suited young Hikaru more (for the purpose of vocal preservation and because she has this pixie quality to her back then).
That’s true to an extent. She can sing Keiko’s middle range song fairly well, but not the really low (Keiko still has the lower range) and not even the medium-high (Hikaru may not even be able to sing up to a C5 note properly).
Yeah, and the crazy thing is this is not Emiko‘s final voice! She’s only 26. Keiko had the range but needs training to develop her head and mix, and a mindset change to not equate nasal with high, bright notes or yelling with energetic belting.
I am really thinking about this and I’m coming to the suspicion that Kajiura doesn’t actually write exactly to voices. She imagines the music and refines it, develops the story/lyric, has the idea of colors and tones she wants to utilize and she picks the singer for it.
She may imagine a lyric sung in a particular singer’s voice (e.g. Wakana) but she also refines the singer's actual studio performance initially to better fit the requirements in her ears, which can be different from what the singer intended or is familiar with.
That's why the Kalafina ladies could all say singing the KnK songs was hard for them (out of their comfort zone), and Wakana could say Kajiura was strict on her to sing on a particular way, and LiSA could say singing "Shine in a Cruel Night" was challenging and out of her usual comfort zone (bringing out vocal elements she rarely explores, if ever).
Yeah…It was rough. I winced several times while listening to the raw version.
To be honest, it’s not as easy to sing Kajiura's music as we fans think, more so in harmony and blending. Kalafina doesn’t blend at the level of Ensemble Planeta or Forestella, for example. But, Ensemble Planeta doesn't sing the fast-paced, dramatic, tone/key-shifting, genre-blending music of Kajiura.